OmniBLACK
Steel Johnson
39 by Design
Posts: 103
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Post by OmniBLACK on Aug 15, 2018 22:31:16 GMT
Fire Pro World on PC could have been the last one published by Spike and that would have been fine because eventually, we will have modded it so much that it will be like a brand new game, by Fire Pro standards. I can see somebody do a new UI, make new menu music etc for it someday. This will live forever. This will be ours to play with as we please sooner than later. Firepromoter NEEDS to come out. That's the only thing that I need from them from a long-term replayability through modding stand-point. Just like Fighting Road offers a frame to mod, FirePromoter does too. I want very little sizzle from Spike, just a lot of tools and bases that our guys can expand on. It WILL come out, they've already released the friggin season pass, is not like they can turn back now - but youre right in your way of thinking about Fire Pro World - this game is already timeless.
We should pester them towards the end of Fire Pro World run to release their devtools so we can play around and put the creations in the workshop.
That should be the case if this truly is the LAST FirePro
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Post by romanticmisery on Aug 15, 2018 23:21:25 GMT
Not "the last", mainly because you never say never and there's no way to know the future, but this is the first one that's really open to customization in the pc version, with steam workshop support and all, so the question is "why not?"
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Post by kikrusher99 on Aug 16, 2018 0:24:44 GMT
If they'd just released gameplay videos none of this would happened.
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Post by crippler19 on Aug 16, 2018 2:42:51 GMT
If they'd just released gameplay videos none of this would happened. Now we know why we didn’t get any...
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Post by OrochiGeese on Aug 16, 2018 4:57:53 GMT
A lot of thoughts as I once again ponder the possibility that FPW really is the last Fire Pro game ever. 1) I think that rough translation of the interview may have lost some of the playful nuances of Matsumoto and some of the subtlety of Japanese. As it is, text doesn't always get across emotions but especially when converting across languages and cultures. So it's possible that some of the more negative thoughts were either exaggerated or misinterpreted. I think some of Matsumoto's self-deprecation comes from a place of humor and text can be bad with that as well. 2) From 2007 until 2017, it genuinely felt like we'd never get another new Fire Pro game again. If you were in the community then, you know how it has felt over the past year to load up FPW every day and look at true glory. I've never taken this game for granted, no matter how frustrated I may have gotten at some things. It's always been that FPW was 1 billion steps forward and maybe some of the negative things were like 5 steps back. Even if we were never to get another Fire Pro game again, FPW more than lived up to its hype and hope. I was 100% prepared to live the rest of eternity my totally mortal life playing FPR and not really complaining. I can easily do the same with FPW taking that place. When FPW came out, I thought that it could be the last Fire Pro game ever because when FPR came out, I thought that could be the last Fire Pro game ever. Games in this series haven't been a guarantee for decades. We take what we can get, we love it, we play it for as long as we can, and we get ecstatic if another one actually comes out. The series is a miracle. I never poke a miracle or expect one. I just enjoy it and reflect on how lucky we are to experience it. 3) That all being said, even though I think FPW was a miracle and the best Fire Pro game ever (by a wide margin) - I've also always felt that FPW had kind of an "unstable" quality to it that FPD and FPR didn't. I've played FPW now on 3 different computers and it's always felt a little "off." From the menus, to the little graphical glitches, to the big graphical glitches (which are honestly 100% hilarious to me). It felt rushed in many ways. It seems to me that a lot of the JP audience playing the PS4 release are having those problems to a greater extent. The PC version is still at a point that I would personally call "Early Access" compared with the stability of other Fire Pro games and other games. I wasn't happy that Spike took it out of "Early Access" when they did because there was still a lot of work that could have been done. I know they did that for business reasons but I think it was a mistake. I know and accept that Spike is a company out to make money first. But business people don't always do "what's best for business" despite trying to (after all, not everyone that tries to be a millionaire succeeds). I think they were too wrapped up in short term release goals and didn't realize the effect that a troubled release could have on the game and series. (I would note that this is an industry-wide problem as companies rushing out games is an epidemic rather than an exception at this point). My suspicion is that Matsumoto and his creative team would have wanted more time in Early Access but the Spike suits made the decision to get this game out of it quickly and onto the PS4 even quicker (to the point that much more preparation and testing was needed). My suspicion is that Matsumoto never had much control over the release dates of the PC and PS4 release and that he had to make impossible choices (either/or choices of which fans would be unhappy getting one but not both) regarding what was finished in Early Access. Things like the unstable UI, the lack of some rather obvious additions to the game (it still pisses me off that we can't priority INTO standing moves), the complete mess of an edit/group menu, and just general feeling of instability exist in the same game with absolute brilliance. It makes me think that Matsumoto was probably under THE most intense stress to perform miracles for us armed with a pittance of funds and time. Imagine you successfully lobby a company to bring a niche game back, have a community of passionate fans supporting you that have high expectations, but then realize that you weren't given the funds or time to completely satisfy the fans or yourself? That's a tough position to be in and couldn't have been easy for him. I don't blame him. I think that Spike didn't want him to drag this out and had a set time frame. He wanted this game made but he had to accept that project under very tight conditions. I thank him profusely and I don't envy the pressure on him. There were many times over the past year that he seemed depressed over not being able to deliver on things he wanted due to the intense pressure over him and the fact that he didn't have enough control over the time frame of releases. In some ways it reminded me of a passionate Kickstarter project that fell short of developer and fan expectations due to monetary or game production issues. Matsumoto did his best with conditions that were out of his control. That the team produced the excellence it did on Steam (with the DNA to be replicated on PS4 with issues and patches) was amazing. 4) It's also my belief that he had our role in the future of Fire Pro in mind from the start. He didn't choose Steam/PC just because it was popular in the U.S. but because he knew that modding could and would happen. We were locked out of FPR but he knew we wouldn't be locked out of FPW as long as it was released on Steam in addition to PS4. It's my belief that he made the best game that he and his team could under spartan conditions...but that his ultimate gift to us was giving us a game that could be modded forever. And that's because part of him probably always thought this would be the last Fire Pro game. (He may even know for a fact that it's the last Fire Pro game under the current Spike management team). He wanted to give us his best, but he also wanted to allow us to give ourselves the best from this point forward. I think his ultimate gift to us was making a game with as much as possible that was also a template game that we could build on. Thank you Matsumoto. I'm looking forward to the DLC but I thank him and his team for passing the ball and our team (led by Carl of Zilla) for running with it for what will likely be as long as our sun shines and our spirit burns.
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Post by mbxfilms on Aug 16, 2018 12:25:52 GMT
What is there to be mad or upset about with this game? If you are the fanbase of this game and don't support it, kiss it goodbye.
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Post by oneway23 on Aug 16, 2018 12:32:18 GMT
Thank you for your impassioned words, Orochi.
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Post by stealjohnson on Aug 16, 2018 14:35:28 GMT
Can anyone explain why there's such a huge focus on the japanese market for this game? The game is noticeably popular in the west and there's clearly a market for it here, so why does it need to be popular in japan to get more releases? I understand they won't make games if there's no market for them but they also seem aware that there's a market for them over here.
I don't get not making a product you can sell because it doesn't sell in the place you want it too.
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Post by crippler19 on Aug 16, 2018 14:45:12 GMT
Can anyone explain why there's such a huge focus on the japanese market for this game? The game is noticeably popular in the west and there's clearly a market for it here, so why does it need to be popular in japan to get more releases? I understand they won't make games if there's no market for them but they also seem aware that there's a market for them over here. I don't get not making a product you can sell because it doesn't sell in the place you want it too. Because it’s not going to sell enough outside of Japan alone to make it profitable and/or sustainable.
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Post by invader3k on Aug 16, 2018 15:04:12 GMT
Yep, that is correct. From what I remember, the English re-release of "Fire Pro Returns" on PS2 didn't exactly do gangbuster business.
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Post by oneway23 on Aug 16, 2018 15:17:18 GMT
Incredible avatar, invader! Also, the "Dusty Sucks Eggs" guy, too. Needed to be said
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Post by view619 on Aug 16, 2018 16:21:35 GMT
Can anyone explain why there's such a huge focus on the japanese market for this game? The game is noticeably popular in the west and there's clearly a market for it here, so why does it need to be popular in japan to get more releases? I understand they won't make games if there's no market for them but they also seem aware that there's a market for them over here. I don't get not making a product you can sell because it doesn't sell in the place you want it too. The game doesn't have a market in the West, it just has a following of hardcore fans. That's not even close to being sustainable, so they're focusing on Japan because it's their local market and the fire pro series has a history in that country. If it doesn't do well among the mass video game/wrestling fans in the country of its legacy, where it's the only current, local wrestling game backed by the biggest promotion there, then it's not hard for upper management to see that it's not going to be profitable at all.
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Post by wakigatame on Aug 16, 2018 16:23:58 GMT
Can anyone explain why there's such a huge focus on the japanese market for this game? Because it's where the series originated and has the biggest fan following and it's the place where they have the best chance of doing the kind of sales numbers they want? It's been said all along that the Japanese PS4 version is the one they're banking on and if the NA/EU versions do well it's icing on the cake but they're not expecting much.
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Post by Severla on Aug 16, 2018 16:34:30 GMT
Season 2 of both The Big O and FLCL exist because of western popularity, Bandai-Namco flatly increased its English-translations on games due to imports, etc.
Never doubt the foreign consumer.
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Post by Eddie Lukin on Aug 16, 2018 19:20:33 GMT
The Goose is smarter and more eloquent than I. I share all his sentiments.
If this is it for Fire Pro, as we all probably believed it was it for Fire Pro between 2005 and 2017, then we’re going out on a good note.
You ever daydream about what you’d do if you won the lottery? For years, before even Returns came out, my daydream was to commission a PC version of Fire Pro, in english, with shareable edits. The name of it would have been FPE for Fire Pro Engine (or English). A tiny bit of the dream was fulfilled by Agetec’s FPR release, but it was fully realized with World. I tweeted this to the director when the game was first put out on Early Access, and it’s still true. He made the game of my dreams.
And it’s better that I imagined it could have been thanks to creative and technical geniuses like Carlzilla. Fire Pro will endure.
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