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Post by tigerbot on Feb 7, 2019 18:14:43 GMT
Hi, new to Fire Pro World and am curious, for simming my created wrestlers, what's a good range for total parameter / skill points for midcarders and main eventers? I saw a lot of good info in the guides section on what to keep in mind when creating wrestlers, but I didn't see a range (sorry if I missed it!) like as an example - mid carders should be around 150 - 175 and main eventers should be 180 - 190? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
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Post by Guacamole Anderson on Feb 7, 2019 20:12:58 GMT
Hey tigerbot - Welcome to the World.
My general rule of thumb looks something like this...it's what works for me.
>250 Legends (Less than 1% of my edits) 200-250 All-Time Greats (Probably 5-10%) 170-200 Upper-Carders (Maybe 20%) 100-170 Mid-Carders (About 50%) <100 Lower-Carders (Maybe 20%)
Those percentages are guesstimates, as I'm not at my PC right now. I have a text file where I keep track of all my edits' total points...I'll try to post it when I get home from work in a few hours.
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Post by tigerbot on Feb 7, 2019 20:16:08 GMT
Thanks for the reply! This will be helpful and the distribution in terms of the percentages of the edits makes sense.
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Post by jetlag on Feb 7, 2019 20:18:32 GMT
Short answer: go with what makes sense to you, and adjust until you get the results you want.
Bit more detailled answers:
From the ancient wisdom of Bill Woods Wrestler Edit guide:
There is also this bit from TheDenizens & Carlzillas Original Edit guide:
An example would be Bitsadze Tariel (from Fire Pro Returns). He merely has a point total of less than 140, but in simmed matches he is almost unstoppable, because his moveset consists mostly of punches and kicks, and he has a 10 in both offensive punch and kick.
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Post by turrible666 on Feb 7, 2019 20:35:11 GMT
One thing I've noticed on my end is that high-flying cruiserweight types tend to have inflated point totals, because points add up fast for things like high breathing and the ability to run up the turnbuckle. So don't be alarmed if the little guys will sometimes have equal or greater point totals to a heavyweight that they theoretically shouldn't be able to hang with. I've got some 170 point juniors that will absolutely get eaten alive by some of my 150 point heavyweights. Sometimes, that's just how it works out. Also, if an edit absolutely does not use a certain parameter, (usually entertainment, but I've had a few with no joint locks) just don't bother putting any points there.
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Post by tigerbot on Feb 7, 2019 20:49:37 GMT
Jetlag and turrible thanks for the replies! I will definitely take into consideration that it's not just the parameters but how they're used with the edit's moves and logic.
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Post by Severla on Feb 7, 2019 21:45:24 GMT
Care with Deni/Carl's number listings for one notable reason:
The given suggestions are akin to RPG stats. Params shouldnt be treated as such, realistically.
Also, sometimes people tend to go 'oh well my guy is AMAZINGLY AGILE' and slap on like an 8 in Agility, and the moveset is 95% Agility and they just obliterate people.
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Post by Love Wilcox on Feb 7, 2019 22:18:05 GMT
Yes like Sev said, bare in mind the relationship between your offensive params and your moveset. A jobber edit could have less than 100 points total but still be OP. Let’s say he has 1s in every category except Power, which is an 8, and 90% of his offensive moves make use of the Power stat then he’s going to be very strong despite his overall stat point total suggesting otherwise.
Don’t get me wrong, total points are worth taking into account but they can be arbitrary if you don’t consider the relationship between stats and moveset (and logic too I guess).
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Post by Wonderland on Feb 7, 2019 22:46:40 GMT
Also factor in how long you want your matches to go, around how long into a match you want to start seeing bigger moves building to a finish. You can keep your edits relatively the same tiers apart from each other, but have them go 10 minutes avg, 15, 20+, all depends on params in relation to moves/logic as has already been mentioned.
So if you're seeing results you like, far as the correct edits beating the correct edits consistently, but not happy with the length or pacing of matches, you can keep tweaking while still keeping their advantages/disadvantages over one another in tact.
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Post by Guacamole Anderson on Feb 7, 2019 22:55:15 GMT
Here's the list I mentioned in the previous post.
288 Jumbo Tsuruta 271 King Kong Brody 269 Hulk Hogan 251 Verne Gagne
249 Riki Choshu 247 Harley Race 242 Stan Hansen 230 Bob Backlund 228 Jack Brisco 225 Tiger Mask 221 Ric Flair 221 Terry Funk 216 Andre the Giant 216 Rick Martel 215 Road Warrior Hawk 214 Bruno Sammartino 214 Nick Bockwinkel 213 Dory Funk, Jr. 210 Sgt. Slaughter 209 Dusty Rhodes 209 Randy Savage 208 Ricky Steamboat 205 Road Warrior Animal 203 Nikita Koloff 202 Magnum TA
199 Magnificent Muraco 198 Jerry Lawler 196 Dynamite Kid 196 Mil Mascaras 193 Steve Williams 191 Abdullah the Butcher 190 Barry Windham
189 Tully Blanchard 188 Kevin Von Erich 187 Kerry Von Erich 186 Terry Gordy 186 Roddy Piper 186 Iron Sheik 185 Paul Orndorff 182 Tiger Jeet Singh 182 Ted DiBiase 182 Carlos Colon
180 David Von Erich
178 Ken Patera 175 Dick the Bruiser 173 Jake Roberts 172 Lex Luger 172 Greg Valentine 172 Dick Murdoch 172 Mr. Saito 171 Bret Hart
170 Ron Garvin 170 Larry Zbyszko 170 Wahoo McDaniel 170 Tito Santana
169 Sid Vicious 168 Ole Anderson 167 Kevin Sullivan 167 Da Crusher 166 Rick Rude 166 Curt Hennig 166 Mad Dog Vachon 162 Jesse Ventura
160 Adrian Adonis
159 Shawn Michaels 158 Tommy Rich 158 Dingo Warrior 157 Masked Superstar 157 Scott Hall 155 Ernie Ladd 155 Jimmy Garvin 154 Dick Slater 154 Davey Boy Smith 154 Michael Hayes 153 Billy Jack Haynes 153 Chris Adams 152 Ricky Morton 151 Billy Robinson 151 Blackjack Mulligan
150 Billy Graham 150 Arn Anderson 150 Bam Bam Bigelow 150 Junkyard Dog 150 Ray Stevens 150 Bad News Allen 150 Robert Fuller
149 Baron von Raschke 149 Gino Hernandez 149 Terry Taylor 148 Buzz Sawyer 148 King Kong Bundy 147 Austin Idol 147 Hacksaw Duggan 147 Pat Patterson 147 David Shultz 146 John Studd 146 Killer Khan 146 Colonel DeBeers 146 Mega Maharishi 144 Rocky Johnson 144 Mark Lewin 143 Great Kabuki 143 King Tonga 143 Kendo Nagasaki 143 Pedro Morales 143 The Assassin 142 Mongolian Stomper 142 Eddie Gilbert 141 Stan Stasiak 141 Mike Rotundo 141 Nikolai Volkoff
140 Manny Fernandez 140 One Man Gang 140 Butch Reed 140 Lance Von Erich
139 Ivan Koloff 139 Marty Jannetty 139 Buddy Rose 139 Bob Orton, Jr. 139 Tony Atlas 139 Otto Wanz 138 Johnny Smith 137 Bob Armstrong 137 Adrian Street 137 Jeff Jarrett 137 Hercules Hernandez 136 Nord the Barbarian 135 Jerry Brisco 135 White Ninja 135 Matt Borne 135 Jim Neidhart 134 Ron Bass 134 Big Bubba Rogers 134 Tom Prichard 133 The Sheik 133 Brad Armstrong 133 Jim Brunzell 132 Krusher Khruschev 132 Ron Fuller 132 Jimmy Golden 131 Mr. Wrestling II 131 Chris Benoit 131 Dutch Mantel
130 Dino Bravo
129 Angelo Mosca 128 Owen Hart 127 Greg Gagne 127 Ox Baker 126 Masa Chono 126 The Grappler 125 Jerry Blackwell 125 The Barbarian 125 Kamala 125 Lord Humongous 125 Wild Samoan Afa 125 Wild Samoan Sika 125 Mike Graham 124 Al Perez 124 Bruce Hart 124 The Cobra 123 Mr. Olympia 123 Buddy Landel 123 The Nightmare 123 Hiro Saito 123 Stan Lane 123 Brickhouse Brown 122 The Warlord 122 Bob Roop 122 Savannah Jack 121 Doug Furnas 121 Tom Zenk 121 Brutus Beefcake 121 Mike George
120 Jay Youngblood 120 Mark Youngblood
119 Butcher Vachon 119 Hiroshi Hase 119 Porkchop Cash 118 Jos Leduc 118 Bill Dundee 118 Sting 118 Steve Keirn 118 Rip Oliver 117 Ted Oates 117 Ed Gantner 117 Tonga Kid 117 Brett Wayne Sawyer 116 Koko Ware 116 Tommy Rogers 116 Chris Colt 116 Tracy Smothers 115 Wendell Cooley 115 Blackjack Lanza 115 Doug Somers 115 Jason the Terrible 114 Maha Singh 114 Rip Rogers 113 Rick Steiner 113 Iceman Parsons 113 Chavo Guerrero 113 Hector Guerrero 113 Kendall Windham 113 Brian Blair 113 Robert Gibson 112 Scott Casey 112 Siva Afi 111 Don Kernodle 111 Ivan Putski 111 Butch Miller 111 Steve Armstrong
110 Buddy Roberts 110 Moondog Rex
109 Bobby Eaton 109 John Tatum 109 Dave Peterson 108 Kevin Kelly 107 Tony Anthony 107 Mike Miller 107 Luke Williams 107 Bill Irwin 107 Mike Davis 107 Scott Armstrong 105 Mike Von Erich 105 Bobby Jaggers 105 Cocoa Samoa 103 Jesse Barr 103 Dennis Condrey 102 Steve Simpson 102 Brad Rheingans 102 Pat Tanaka 102 Lanny Poffo 102 Bart Batten 102 Brad Batten 101 Steve Regal
100 Ron Starr 100 Fumihiro Niikura
99 Teijo Khan 99 George Steele 99 Cuban Assassin 98 Rufus R. Jones 98 Mr. Hito 98 Jerry Oates 98 MOD Squad Spike 98 MOD Squad Basher 97 Killer Brooks 96 Scott Irwin 96 Kareem Muhammed 95 Black Bart 95 Jimmy Valiant 95 Makhan Singh 95 Eric Embry 95 Biff Wellington 94 Moondog Spot 94 Jack Victory 93 Bugsy McGraw 92 Al Madril 92 Shaun Simpson 92 Tim Horner 92 Tommy Lane 92 Bob Brown 91 Ben Bassarab 91 Sonny Two Rivers 91 Elijah Akeem 90 Paul Diamond 90 Danny Davis
89 Sam Houston 89 Brian Adias 89 Bobby Fulton 88 Ken Wayne 87 Angel of Death 87 The Missing Link 87 Paul Ellering 85 David Sammartino 85 Soul Train Jones 83 Art Crews 82 Headhunter #1 82 Headhunter #2 80 Jack Hart
79 Tyree Pride 78 Buck Robley 77 JT Southern 74 Kerry Brown 71 Billy Joe Travis 71 Diamond Timothy Flowers 43 Mark Gullen
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Post by tigerbot on Feb 8, 2019 15:40:13 GMT
Sev, Wilcox - thanks for the replies. I think I'll start with some basic ranges and then see how they play out with my logic and then tweak from there where needed. Guac, thanks for the list, this will be very helpful to reference as I get into this more. This board is awesome, thanks to everyone!
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Post by ElWaster on Feb 12, 2019 15:30:29 GMT
I've taken a different approach to parameters with this method I am getting matches that average around the 20 minute mark (in game time), and providing the move logic is done well with the wrestlers the matches look good, and I get the expected results in terms of false finishes etc... as well as matches where top card wrestlers will have the expected victories over low card. I'm currently building a stats worksheet (mainly wwe stars to start with) hoping to be complete in the next couple of weeks, then I will share if anyone is interested. There is a bigger gap between attack numbers being lower, and defense being higher, this is so matches are stretched out to a more satisfying length. The Brackets I'm breaking stars into is: Low Card - Mid Card - High Card - Unstoppable Beast. I've made reference to the excellent Hype/DC attributes list that was made primarily for 2k19, but have used it as a base for where a wrestlers specific strengths and weakness balance (e.g. Strowman's ARM is 6, but his but Joint is 2, so even if he does use a submission, it will not deplete the opponents health too quickly) and adapted it for the the FPW set up. I have not touched on moves (yet) but I have include Ukemi. I may add a column for Priority Attacks once I've completed the stats, but lets see how the base sheet goes first. As well as stats, the wrestlers fight style. Skill, Spirit, Recovery and Breathing is taken into consideration too as they affect the overall effectiveness of the moves. The tiers numbers I'm working around are as follows: TYPICAL OFFENSE TIERS LEGEND/BEAST- 55 and Up TOP CARD Around 50 MID CARD Around 40 LOW CARD Around 30 TYPICAL DEFENSE TIERS TOP CARD Around 80+ MID CARD Around 60-65 LOW CARD Around 40 or Less It will definitely go through a series of tweaks when completed as there is no way this will be 100% on it's first completion, but I am testing a variety of match-ups and so far I've been satisfied with the results. Feedback and input from the community is totally welcomed too My personal aim here is to have a well balanced roster in time for Fire Promoter mode so I can mostly sim.
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Post by IrresPedre on Feb 12, 2019 15:39:19 GMT
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Post by tutimane on Mar 4, 2019 0:30:48 GMT
Also factor in how long you want your matches to go, around how long into a match you want to start seeing bigger moves building to a finish. You can keep your edits relatively the same tiers apart from each other, but have them go 10 minutes avg, 15, 20+, all depends on params in relation to moves/logic as has already been mentioned. So if you're seeing results you like, far as the correct edits beating the correct edits consistently, but not happy with the length or pacing of matches, you can keep tweaking while still keeping their advantages/disadvantages over one another in tact. I'm trying to get 8-10 min matches with my edits, should I put their params to 10?
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Post by Wonderland on Mar 4, 2019 0:44:42 GMT
I'm trying to get 8-10 min matches with my edits, should I put their params to 10? Not necessarily. Hard to say in the abstract, like I mentioned it depends on a lot of things, including the moves themselves and logic. But if I'm taking a stab at it in the dark... sure, try mixing offensive params in the 7-10 range, defensive params maybe same or 6-9? Truthfully though, you're just gonna need to experiment and tweak based on results.
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