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Post by hungerlow on Aug 22, 2018 19:00:48 GMT
Every point you made is a good one, charlie...Cody, Kenny, the Bucks, All In, ROH-NJPW selling out MSG. Honestly though; Do you think that they would've sold out the Garden is the event wasn't taking place on Wrestlemania weekend? I'm not trying to downplay the accomplishment, but let's put things into perspective. The biggest wrestling fans are flying in from all over the world to see Wrestlemania. It's added incentive when you have multiple shows that you can watch before the big event. Oh, ROH / NJPW is putting on a show that weekend? That's rare, let me grab a ticket". It's a great strategy, but I don't think it's necessarily indicative of wrestling (and ROH / NJPW) being super hot right now. They're playing to a very niche market. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 19:01:21 GMT
Sorry for the rant...I hate work at the moment, and this was more fun.
Haha, no problem with the length. I'm doing the same. About the sales, from what I heard, Returns only sold 90k over its entire lifetime. So 45k from PC + 20k from JPN PS4 launch puts World at around 65k total. The US/EU PS4 launch of World should do at least 25k. About wrestling, yeah it's nowhere near as big as it was when I was a kid but it's way more accessible. You can subscribe to NJPWWorld for less than $10 a month, a ton of promotions are following the WWE's lead on the network, ROH & Impact weekly wrestling is free to watch on their sites, AAA & CMLL are live broadcasting for free online, Smackdown's coming back to broadcast tv in 2019. The ones that jump through hoops to watch NJPWWorld are the same people who shouldn't be turned off by Fire Pro's 2D graphics. But yeah there's also some core failures from Spike regarding World. There's zero reason why we shouldn't be able to move wrestlers around in the menus or edit default wrestlers without having to copy them first. It's something you were able to do in the AKI games on N64. Also the fact they didn't come up with a mobile app where you could edit on the go and import the finished product into your game via QR code is a giant missed opportunity. We should be happy that we got any new Fire Pro at all but it's hard to not feel bitter about what World could have been with a better team (no disrespect to Director or co-Director) |
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Post by Spunk on Aug 22, 2018 19:18:25 GMT
Every point you made is a good one, charlie...Cody, Kenny, the Bucks, All In, ROH-NJPW selling out MSG. Honestly though; Do you think that they would've sold out the Garden is the event wasn't taking place on Wrestlemania weekend? I'm not trying to downplay the accomplishment, but let's put things into perspective. The biggest wrestling fans are flying in from all over the world to see Wrestlemania. It's added incentive when you have multiple shows that you can watch before the big event. Oh, ROH / NJPW is putting on a show that weekend? That's rare, let me grab a ticket". It's a great strategy, but I don't think it's necessarily indicative of wrestling (and ROH / NJPW) being super hot right now. They're playing to a very niche market. Probably not, no. There's not much wrestling happening WM weekend that doesn't do well. It is a niche market and I think that people forget that. Fire Pro will get more attention from this, sure, but how much? NJPW World has like 100,000 subscribers, 40,000 are outside of Japan. While that's an okay number, it's still not huge and THAT is the base that Fire Pro World is looking to penetrate. |
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Post by oneway23 on Aug 22, 2018 19:20:33 GMT
Every point you made is a good one, charlie...Cody, Kenny, the Bucks, All In, ROH-NJPW selling out MSG. Honestly though; Do you think that they would've sold out the Garden is the event wasn't taking place on Wrestlemania weekend? I'm not trying to downplay the accomplishment, but let's put things into perspective. The biggest wrestling fans are flying in from all over the world to see Wrestlemania. It's added incentive when you have multiple shows that you can watch before the big event. Oh, ROH / NJPW is putting on a show that weekend? That's rare, let me grab a ticket". It's a great strategy, but I don't think it's necessarily indicative of wrestling (and ROH / NJPW) being super hot right now. They're playing to a very niche market. This is a straw-man argument that I'm not getting into here. Why you elected to cherry-pick THIS, out of everything I said, is beyond me. You can examine the factors for the sellout from every angle, and there are valid reasons and considerations, but, a sellout is sellout. |
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Post by oneway23 on Aug 22, 2018 19:31:01 GMT
Sorry for the rant...I hate work at the moment, and this was more fun.
Haha, no problem with the length. I'm doing the same. About the sales, from what I heard, Returns only sold 90k over its entire lifetime. So 45k from PC + 20k from JPN PS4 launch puts World at around 65k total. The US/EU PS4 launch of World should do at least 25k. About wrestling, yeah it's nowhere near as big as it was when I was a kid but it's way more accessible. You can subscribe to NJPWWorld for less than $10 a month, a ton of promotions are following the WWE's lead on the network, ROH & Impact weekly wrestling is free to watch on their sites, AAA & CMLL are live broadcasting for free online, Smackdown's coming back to broadcast tv in 2019. The ones that jump through hoops to watch NJPWWorld are the same people who shouldn't be turned off by Fire Pro's 2D graphics. But yeah there's also some core failures from Spike regarding World. There's zero reason why we shouldn't be able to move wrestlers around in the menus or edit default wrestlers without having to copy them first. It's something you were able to do in the AKI games on N64. Also the fact they didn't come up with a mobile app where you could edit on the go and import the finished product into your game via QR code is a giant missed opportunity. We should be happy that we got any new Fire Pro at all but it's hard to not feel bitter about what World could have been with a better team (no disrespect to Director or co-Director) I like your optimism, kid! You are absolutely right that now, today, is an awesome time to be a wrestling fan. For that, we should all be grateful. We've come a LONG way from waiting for VHS tapes of 6-month old events from the back of an Apter mag. The salty old-timers here (if they're still around) know how much fun it was waiting and waiting and......waiting; nowadays, if you can't watch it live (!!!! What?!?...Live Puro? Yes, live Puro! Absolute madness!), it's online within 12 hours. That is utter insanity that is difficult to articulate to some of the younger among us who may take such luxuries for granted. About Spike, hmmmm....great heart, fantastic determination, a truckload of passion, and, unfortunately, a metric ton of missed opportunities. Let's hope things swing the Director's way. |
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Post by hungerlow on Aug 22, 2018 19:37:16 GMT
Honestly though; Do you think that they would've sold out the Garden is the event wasn't taking place on Wrestlemania weekend? I'm not trying to downplay the accomplishment, but let's put things into perspective. The biggest wrestling fans are flying in from all over the world to see Wrestlemania. It's added incentive when you have multiple shows that you can watch before the big event. Oh, ROH / NJPW is putting on a show that weekend? That's rare, let me grab a ticket". It's a great strategy, but I don't think it's necessarily indicative of wrestling (and ROH / NJPW) being super hot right now. They're playing to a very niche market. This is a straw-man argument that I'm not getting into here. Why you elected to cherry-pick THIS, out of everything I said, is beyond me. You can examine the factors for the sellout from every angle, and there are valid reasons and considerations, but, a sellout is sellout. Because context and circumstances are important when assessing things properly. Where's the strawman in what I said? I isolated an example that you made and discussed it by bringing in necessary information. You were using this point to illustrate how wrestling is super hot right now, while I'm saying that the circumstances helped that from happening a great deal. You have to consider the fact that diehard wrestling fans are flying from all over the world to see Wrestlemania, so the target market for the event is already in the city and hyped up about wrestling. It's quite simple, really. |
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Post by fignuts on Aug 22, 2018 19:38:38 GMT
Can't blame Carl for being upset. Respected Spikes request to stop publicly releasing new moves, which he absolutely did not have to do. Just for them to send early release copies to a bunch of YouTube channels and not him. And now this.
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Post by romanticmisery on Aug 22, 2018 19:44:56 GMT
While I understand most people just want a game that they can play and have fun with -- that's great -- but for me, Fire Pro is as it always was: a tool that can be the engine for a creative project. In that regard, I don't care about having an official version of Kenny Omega or Hirooki Goto. New moves and parts are always a welcome addition, but this move is going to effectively cripple the game that I know and use for quite a while. It's difficult not to be disappointed here. Pretty much it. Thats how i see fire pro as well, having way less in the way of skills with tools than you people at SCFL have i managed to run a whole season of a weekly show in twitch and even do some sprite comics based out of it, Fire Pro to me is life, and i was very excited to m,ess around with the tools in 28th of this month.
But Spike had to mess this up too.
As for it crippling the game, its too early to say something like that, because the piece of software isn't out yet and carl needs to take a look at it to say for sure if he'll be able to do a fix for the modsuite or not.
So we wait.
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takuan
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Post by takuan on Aug 22, 2018 19:47:20 GMT
I'm in the same boat as Spunk. If I were just playing Fire Pro, I'd probably go ahead and update and not really be bothered by a lack of mods. But since my main interaction with Fire Pro is putting on a show. It may not be as sophisticated as SCFL, but, y'know, I try. It would be impossible to make the kind of show I want to make without mods-Booking, the match settings mods, ring announcements, the ring database and nameplates, interference... the new parts and moves seem cool, and the story mode looks fun, but, I can wait, or do without, if it comes to it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 19:47:29 GMT
They haven't given me much of an option here regarding bypassing the Workshop. They've made it a choice between having no mechanism to share edits or just giving up on trying to be 100% supportive. I can export/import edits between saves, so why should those who decide that mods are more important than NJPW trash go without? I tried working with them, it didn't work out, I'm not mad at that about that. What I'm mad about is that this is clearly a PS4 related delay, and now we're basically being asked to sit around with our dicks in our hands and deal with it so they can focus on making the PS4 version owners happy. This is probably a retarded idea but could it be possible to change the wrestler id after its downloaded from the Workshop? Something like that could give us unity regardless of whether the actual edits are the same. (since i imagine the mission mode and fighting road work go off that, right?) But I'd try to avoid burning bridges for the time being. If you told me that active development was continuing past Q1 2019 without another port, I'd be surprised. If active development continues past Q4 2019 regardless of what happens, I'd be flabbergasted. I don't know what anyone was expecting, but, wrestling itself is a niche market, wrestling video games, a smaller market still, and, updated versions of thirty-year old Japanese wrestling games that found a certain peculiar audience that enjoyed importing Japanese wrestling games? A f*cking blip. If anyone at Chunsoft (or anyone else) expected anything beyond, they are absolutely psychotic. To be fair to them, they're only 25k units from World outselling Returns. That's something the US/EU PS4 market should easily cross on launch. Wrestling's the hottest its been in a long time, sharing edits is a million times easier than it was in the past and nostalgia is in. Not to mention they rebuilt the engine in Unity so they could potentially port it to PS5 and phones years from now.
I'm not sure what you mean by "changing the ID..." the issue here is that people who don't update the game won't have access to workshop edits...so anyone choosing to continue to use mods will be entirely unable to download from the workshop, that's why another method is needed. I don't want to burn bridges either, but I can pull of an import/export tool in a few hours over one weekend, and they've basically forced my hand with this delay since I'm able to do it and not going without simply because they can't get their shit together.
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Post by desertpunk34 on Aug 22, 2018 19:52:28 GMT
I'll call it now, Fire Promoter will indeed come out in janurary, Spike just got the year wrong. It'll be a solid year for something they said was 80% done.
I honestly have lost all faith in them keeping anything on a time table. I get shit gets in the way but i'd be lying if I didn't get the feeling that theres some bullshit somewhere.
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Post by oneway23 on Aug 22, 2018 19:53:21 GMT
This is a straw-man argument that I'm not getting into here. Why you elected to cherry-pick THIS, out of everything I said, is beyond me. You can examine the factors for the sellout from every angle, and there are valid reasons and considerations, but, a sellout is sellout. Because context and circumstances are important when assessing things properly. Where's the strawman in what I said? I isolated an example that you made and discussed it by bringing in necessary information. You were using this point to illustrate how wrestling is super hot right now, while I'm saying that the circumstances helped that from happening a great deal. You have to consider the fact that diehard wrestling fans are flying from all over the world to see Wrestlemania, so the target market for the event is already in the city and hyped up about wrestling. It's quite simple, really. You've clearly missed the entire point of my post. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but, I believe Charlie was citing those things as examples of why Fire Pro had a shot at success in the current climate. I was saying that while those accomplishments are relatively impressive, and, frankly, should be applauded, wrestling is nowhere near as hot as it was the last time Fire Pro was released. I literally said this in the post. I was comparing the glory days of US wrestling and Puro to today and saying that Spike was insane for expecting anything resembling high sales numbers. Reading comprehension issues, quick to wade in, regardless, and selective understanding. You must be a millennial. At least read the entire post before chiming in next time. |
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Post by romanticmisery on Aug 22, 2018 20:00:30 GMT
Exactly - niche game based of niche sport post-kayfabe era - They can't be possibly expecting to pull in FIFA's or PES numbers, if they do they have serious issues.
They have a timetable, but thats for console releases, we get crap when they feel like working on it and we're just supposed to take it - thats how this has been going around lately. 
As for Fire Promoter it must be something quite sensible data-wise for them to delay so much but them again, the "bullshit" has a name, it's black, shiny, expensive and its pretty much the best console to come out this generation: PS4
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Post by hungerlow on Aug 22, 2018 20:03:18 GMT
Because context and circumstances are important when assessing things properly. Where's the strawman in what I said? I isolated an example that you made and discussed it by bringing in necessary information. You were using this point to illustrate how wrestling is super hot right now, while I'm saying that the circumstances helped that from happening a great deal. You have to consider the fact that diehard wrestling fans are flying from all over the world to see Wrestlemania, so the target market for the event is already in the city and hyped up about wrestling. It's quite simple, really. You've clearly missed the entire point of my post. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but, I believe Charlie was citing those things as examples of why Fire Pro had a shot at success in the current climate. I was saying that while those accomplishments are relatively impressive, and, frankly, should be applauded, wrestling is nowhere near as hot as it was the last time Fire Pro was released. I literally said this in the post. I was comparing the glory days of US wrestling and Puro to today and saying that Spike was insane for expecting anything resembling high sales numbers. Reading comprehension issues, quick to wade in, regardless, and selective understanding. You must be a millennial. At least read the entire post before chiming in next time. You could've easily left it at your first paragraph instead of being a needless dick with the second one, but fair enough if that was the gist of your point. It seemed to me like that quote was in response to Charlie's "Wrestling's the hottest its been in a long time" line. I was just trying to put things into perspective because I don't see wrestling as being relatively all that hot right now. I don't think that the fanbase for wrestling expanded significantly at all in the last few years. If anything, certain metrics are indicating otherwise. |
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Post by kikrusher99 on Aug 22, 2018 20:08:36 GMT
LMAO at people insulting a non WWE product selling out a WWE arena WrestleMania weekend. The weekend doesn't matter, they sold it fucking MSG. M S mother fucking G. That should end the argument right there.
It's an accomplishment no matter how you look at it, and why wouldn't it be? And why does it take knocks because of sound financial business planning? People always find a way to throw shade at noon WWE products. Always.
/Rant
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