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Post by LankyLefty17 on Mar 23, 2019 20:47:32 GMT
In an attempt to start a more postitive conversation (and not clutter another thread) around community events/belts, I have two suggestions on how we can move forward.
1- We completely re-evaluate community titles and their rules. Too many rules are either being dictated by mods, or created by the individuals running the belts. I realize a lot of this was carry over from old sites, but the reality is this is a different site with a lot of new people. Might be worth getting the voice/participation of THIS community.
2- Abandon community titles all together. They might be more trouble than theyre worth, and collaboration and community inclusive stuff can happen (and do happen) without the need of titles.
This absolutely is NOT an indictment of the mods- they have a thankless job, or Radical/FullMetal, who I believe have the best of intentions. This is more to get people talking about how we get back to having fun watching our little video game wrestlers fight each other...
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Post by Brick9mm on Mar 23, 2019 21:36:17 GMT
I do not believe there is a problem with the existence of community titles, especially when all are independent. The only problem is allowing the participation of someone who is not a part of the Critical Club community in the side-forum specifically dedicated to Critical Club Community Events. I'll once again reiterate that the rule applies solely to this section.
I'm fine with the idea of a "community-ran community title" and think such a thing can co-exist with independently ran titles. It's certainly something people are free to try if the interest is there. But the rule that was just established applies to everything in this section without question. This is the consensus reached by the moderation team.
There are two options to the owner of the Internet Championship and FM:
1. Stop booking Voodoo's edits and vacate the title.
2. Remove "official" branding from what you're doing and relocate to the E-feds forum.
These are the only options.
Now would be a good time to point out that regardless of anything, no community titles will be official. The very notion of such a thing is ridiculous in a community like this. It's why Fullmetal's thing isn't actually official. Anyone here is allowed to use the Critical Club name, but nothing is official. I'd like to avoid the implications that come with calling something Official. Anything that happens in this section is supposed to be as valid as it would be if it were stamped by me and everyone else here, there is no single Official anything.
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Mar 23, 2019 21:43:03 GMT
I think you're missing the point but sure, you're the boss.
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Post by Zealot on Mar 23, 2019 23:46:40 GMT
Community titles can be a thing for sure if you run it properly. It's just a matter of what you limit your scope to. If you post your idea, event, etc. in the Critical! Alliance thread, it is considered a community based thing as is everything else in that forum. If you do it in the E-Feds forum, you have your own jurisdiction on what you decide to do and who you decide to help you do it. I initially thought about trying this in the E-Feds forum as the E-Fed Multiverse Championship, but I was kind of beaten to the punch by kingradical's title so I thought against it and decided to see how this one turned out. My thoughts on the Voodoo edit usage fiasco for anyone who cares
The main problem with this title in particular is that it has all the markings, logos, etc. to associate itself with the name of the community website while at the same time heralding its champion from someone who is no longer part of said community that the title is named after. Instead of doing the right thing and removing the user's edit due to this discrepancy, a select few have decided to defend it which isn't right.
I'll admit that I didn't initially realize the severity of the situation until it was brought to my attention. It makes sense though considering that:
1. My tournament was called Critical! Club March Madness 2019
2. It involved a non-Critical! Club member's content.
I think the creation of the community is lost on some people. Do you guys see anyone around here using Tiger Sword's edits in community events?
No. So why is this situation any different?
Neither are part of the community anymore due to their own faults. They shouldn't partake in any events associated with it.
Now does that mean they can't come back and rebuild their reputation within the community? I don't believe so. Everyone deserves a second chance, but it's up to them and the admins and mods if they want to take the necessary steps to do it. For now though, Critical! Club is the community as it stands. It's not the Mod Suite Discord. It's not Twitch. It's Critical! Club.
Overall, I liked the idea, but stuff like the issue with the non-member's edits being used and the forced necessity to hinder edits to a point where everyone could use them even without DLC, I realized that it's probably more work than I originally thought it would be if I tried to do it. There's a lot of variables to it. Not everyone will have all the DLC needed to book edits that do. You also have people all over the world that are part of community as well that may want to book the champion which can cause time issues. Not everyone can record videos of the match as it happens. It's a lot to work with, but far from impossible. |
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WMDBFX
Steel Johnson
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Post by WMDBFX on Mar 23, 2019 23:48:15 GMT
These titles were made with the sole purpose to have participation of the community. To gather like minded creators to paticipate in a " major " event for a " major " prize. We used to have a thread dedicated for RPs that we have fun reading as much as writing it. It is as official as the effort made to design, record, edit, post, program and etc..
Now, as I do agree to an extend with both and understand your point. The main point is the participation of the community. Personally, i see the Internet title as the one truly active and community based title, where everyone is sharing and having a good time booking and participating to keep the title alive.
Now as for the participation if banned creator edits.. as I think I also have a good number of his edit as template.. Persian Mask to name one, if I'm not mistaken.. I have no issue with this community following and sticking to that guidelines.
There.. here is my opinion on the matter.
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Post by TwistC on Mar 24, 2019 0:45:58 GMT
If you're banned from the community forum, you don't get to participate in the community events.
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Mar 24, 2019 0:57:46 GMT
If you're banned from the community forum, you don't get to participate in the community events. Thanks for beating a dead horse. Productive. |
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Post by TwistC on Mar 24, 2019 0:58:58 GMT
If you're banned from the community forum, you don't get to participate in the community events. Thanks for beating a dead horse. Productive. It shouldn't be a thing that I have to restate either way. The conflict on this should not exist |
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Mar 24, 2019 1:01:02 GMT
Thanks for beating a dead horse. Productive. It shouldn't be a thing that I have to restate either way. The conflict on this should not exist The topic had nothing to do with it, but thanks for restating the rule (that Brick also restated). I think we’re clear. |
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Post by TwistC on Mar 24, 2019 1:12:05 GMT
It shouldn't be a thing that I have to restate either way. The conflict on this should not exist The topic had nothing to do with it, but thanks for restating the rule (that Brick also restated). I think we’re clear. I am saying the simple sentence because I feel as though the situation has blown way out of proportion over something so miniscule. Not trying to "beat a dead horse", more just reflection on what I see. As for "official" stuff, I am fine with a good majority of tourney events and things like that, but I also feel that slapping the forum name on things like these titles cause more harm then help. Because then it becomes more representative of the forum itself then the booker of the belts personal vision. |
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Post by fullMETAL on Mar 24, 2019 2:00:31 GMT
(EDIT: apparently this took me more than 50 minutes to write, cuz Twist posted something before I finished this post) THIS is going to be a long-esque post, MOSTLY related to the topic at hand. *ahem* Not to beat another dead horse about this, but ANOTHER suggestion for moving forward with the belts, which I have literally been asking for since we moved from Arena to C!C and rebranded, is for MORE PEOPLE to step up and volunteer to RUN championship divisions for the official (and YES, they ARE Official, and at least 2 or even 3 of them have been so since literally the beginning of the FPCPP) belts of the Community Fed. Literally EVERY single championship division in "CRITICAL! Club the wrestling fed" is open to anybody who offers to do some work to book/run it (or to help run it, in the case of the Anarchy belt, the Internet belt, and the Cruiserweight belt). Anybody saying ANYTHING to the contrary is either lying, not paying any attention, or both. This isn't rocket science, people -- it's social science. It's perfectly fine if you're running your own stuff around here and involving the community (which is a GOOD thing! look how many of you are doing that!) in it, but if anybody's going to complain about the belts for the OFFICIAL Community fed, then maybe actually DO something about it and get INVOLVED in THAT aspect of this whole thing. On a related side note, I recently asked Brick about using HONOO to overhaul the badly-needs-an-overhaul-because-the-original-rules-are-FUCKING-DISAPPEARED DODEKAGON Division (formerly the FPCMMA Division in FPCPP) -- admittedly, the gist was "running the HONOO rules and roster but in Gruesome matches as opposed to just the SWA matches that HONOO itself runs by default" -- and got declined. Which is FINE, nobody HAS to accept that request/offer. But the point of that sentence was to point out that I went to somebody here, who due to working very admirably on almost 100% the specific thing I went to him about, and asked if he'd be interested in adapting that thing into one of the championship divisions for the Community fed, and he declined. Also on that note, I did go to Level, Denizen, and Senator, ALL of them very RESPECTED figures here in this community and in internet wrestling circles at large, and asked if THEY'D be interested in running belts (Level said "yes" but admitted that he has his own workload that would limit, if not wipe out, any involvement he could offer) for the fed that THEY'VE been a part of for over 10 years. I'm not some lone wolf cowboy cop over here, people. Stop accusing me of being that. Quick side note to address the "Sy/NSL in the World Title picture" point that Pepperoni brought up: I don't intend to sound like an ass when I say this (text on the internet and all that), but the whole "jumping through hoops" thing to get the World Title match in the first place is LITERALLY how wrestling booking works -- NSL gets put into matches with other people who could lay a claim on World Title contendership (like Axl Evermore and Geese, who both won big matches at AR last year), and if he comes out on top, he gets the nod for the match! If I had just put him in a World Title match against Riggs, I would be getting complained at for just putting him in a World Title match with Riggs with nothing having happened beforehand. I'd MUCH rather have the former than the latter, because at least THERE, I won't fucking get accused of "doing FM things because fuck you".Btw, NSL being a contender for the World Title in the first place is because Sy spoke up and stepped up to get acknowledged and get MORE INVOLVED in the fed itself. I EVEN PUT A THREAD UP WHERE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN BEING CONTENDERS FOR THE WORLD TITLE COULD SIGN UP TO DO SO.(And the ONE person who DID so has just recently asked to have ALL of HIS edits removed in their entirety from the Official Roster, so FUCK ME, RIGHT?) To quickly address the "majority of the community doesn't really contain the knowledge or understanding of the characters involved" thing, THAT VERY THING is another of the reasons I've been asking for the past year for more people to get involved in the fed. IT'S WHY I MADE A GODDAMN THREAD FOR THE FUCKING THING!!!I MAKE THESE THREADS FOR THESE SPECIFIC PURPOSES! IT'S NOT MY FAULT IF ANY OF YOU DON'T INTERACT WITH THEM! FOR FUCK'S SAKE!! And to repeat something I said literally last year (lots of "literally"s today): I'm NOT doing this in a vacuum. And also to add: I don't WANT to do this in a vacuum; PLEASE don't make me do this in a fucking vacuum. I'm ACTUALLY trying to satisfy as many people in this community as I can with how I'm handling things, but I can't SUCCEED without the help and involvement of YOU ALL, the Community. Does ANY of this make SENSE to ANYBODY here? Am I getting ANY of this across properly, or are any of you just going to once again go "oh, you're just doing what you want because fuck you" at me?? |
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Steel Johnson
Posts: 207
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Post by WMDBFX on Mar 24, 2019 2:06:09 GMT
Let's discuss and evaluate..
The World title and World tag title are the main titles. To be openly contested.
The ANARCHY title, Joshivisoon are the secondary titles, also openly contested.
These titles were a part of this community since FPC as well as the Star of the Jar.
At the tail end of the FPC era, we had the Grand Prix, Battlefront and Dodekagon ( FKA FPCMMA ) title. These titles were match type specific titles ( ie Survivor Series, Royal Rumble etc ). Apart from the MMA title, the others IMO were never meant to have titles just maybe bragging rights and opportunity to contest for either the main or secondary titles. Other than these, there are tournaments with basically the same type of reward
During this period, our community fed FPCPP were governed by a booking committee. Then we moved to FPWArena. I think this is when it was decided to disband the booking committee and let the individuals willing enough to take responsibility be in charge of a specific division. And we did..
Then we move here where we have adopted a new title to represent the community in the Internet title. The forementioned match specific title have also evolved and has been given it each own championship belts.
As long there are interest to participate and willingness to book it, the titles would still be alive. However, if we are looking to do a reboot of sort, we can do this after MILESTONE.
My apologie if I got my community history wrong or miss out anything or mixed things up.
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WMDBFX
Steel Johnson
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Post by WMDBFX on Mar 24, 2019 2:14:46 GMT
(EDIT: apparently this took me more than 50 minutes to write, cuz Twist posted something before I finished this post) THIS is going to be a long-esque post, MOSTLY related to the topic at hand. *ahem* Not to beat another dead horse about this, but ANOTHER suggestion for moving forward with the belts, which I have literally been asking for since we moved from Arena to C!C and rebranded, is for MORE PEOPLE to step up and volunteer to RUN championship divisions for the official (and YES, they ARE Official, and at least 2 or even 3 of them have been so since literally the beginning of the FPCPP) belts of the Community Fed. Literally EVERY single championship division in "CRITICAL! Club the wrestling fed" is open to anybody who offers to do some work to book/run it (or to help run it, in the case of the Anarchy belt, the Internet belt, and the Cruiserweight belt). Anybody saying ANYTHING to the contrary is either lying, not paying any attention, or both. This isn't rocket science, people -- it's social science. It's perfectly fine if you're running your own stuff around here and involving the community (which is a GOOD thing! look how many of you are doing that!) in it, but if anybody's going to complain about the belts for the OFFICIAL Community fed, then maybe actually DO something about it and get INVOLVED in THAT aspect of this whole thing. On a related side note, I recently asked Brick about using HONOO to overhaul the badly-needs-an-overhaul-because-the-original-rules-are-FUCKING-DISAPPEARED DODEKAGON Division (formerly the FPCMMA Division in FPCPP) -- admittedly, the gist was "running the HONOO rules and roster but in Gruesome matches as opposed to just the SWA matches that HONOO itself runs by default" -- and got declined. Which is FINE, nobody HAS to accept that request/offer. But the point of that sentence was to point out that I went to somebody here, who due to working very admirably on almost 100% the specific thing I went to him about, and asked if he'd be interested in adapting that thing into one of the championship divisions for the Community fed, and he declined. Also on that note, I did go to Level, Denizen, and Senator, ALL of them very RESPECTED figures here in this community and in internet wrestling circles at large, and asked if THEY'D be interested in running belts (Level said "yes" but admitted that he has his own workload that would limit, if not wipe out, any involvement he could offer) for the fed that THEY'VE been a part of for over 10 years. I'm not some lone wolf cowboy cop over here, people. Stop accusing me of being that. Quick side note to address the "Sy/NSL in the World Title picture" point that Pepperoni brought up: I don't intend to sound like an ass when I say this (text on the internet and all that), but the whole "jumping through hoops" thing to get the World Title match in the first place is LITERALLY how wrestling booking works -- NSL gets put into matches with other people who could lay a claim on World Title contendership (like Axl Evermore and Geese, who both won big matches at AR last year), and if he comes out on top, he gets the nod for the match! If I had just put him in a World Title match against Riggs, I would be getting complained at for just putting him in a World Title match with Riggs with nothing having happened beforehand. I'd MUCH rather have the former than the latter, because at least THERE, I won't fucking get accused of "doing FM things because fuck you".Btw, NSL being a contender for the World Title in the first place is because Sy spoke up and stepped up to get acknowledged and get MORE INVOLVED in the fed itself. I EVEN PUT A THREAD UP WHERE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN BEING CONTENDERS FOR THE WORLD TITLE COULD SIGN UP TO DO SO.(And the ONE person who DID so has just recently asked to have ALL of HIS edits removed in their entirety from the Official Roster, so FUCK ME, RIGHT?) To quickly address the "majority of the community doesn't really contain the knowledge or understanding of the characters involved" thing, THAT VERY THING is another of the reasons I've been asking for the past year for more people to get involved in the fed. IT'S WHY I MADE A GODDAMN THREAD FOR THE FUCKING THING!!!I MAKE THESE THREADS FOR THESE SPECIFIC PURPOSES! IT'S NOT MY FAULT IF ANY OF YOU DON'T INTERACT WITH THEM! FOR FUCK'S SAKE!! And to repeat something I said literally last year (lots of "literally"s today): I'm NOT doing this in a vacuum. And also to add: I don't WANT to do this in a vacuum; PLEASE don't make me do this in a fucking vacuum. I'm ACTUALLY trying to satisfy as many people in this community as I can with how I'm handling things, but I can't SUCCEED without the help and involvement of YOU ALL, the Community. Does ANY of this make SENSE to ANYBODY here? Am I getting ANY of this across properly, or are any of you just going to once again go "oh, you're just doing what you want because fuck you" at me?? Acknowledged, agreed and stop doing stuff to the vacuum |
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Post by fullMETAL on Mar 24, 2019 2:18:29 GMT
(insert gif of Doofy from Scary Movie doing stuff in a vacuum)
If it makes a difference, the reboot was technically supposed to happen LAST year after Arena Rising, hence all the threads I've been putting up over the past year.
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Post by xemyrlebeau on Mar 24, 2019 4:56:00 GMT
The Fire Pro community has changed drastically even over the time I've been here, which hasn't been that terribly long. With that in mind, I think that there's a lot missing with the system as it is. That's not FM's fault, and it's not the fault of the community, but it feels as though there are a lot of people with different expectations doing different things. With that in mind, I feel like there are two major responses to what Lefty's saying, and by induction, FM's frustrations.
First of all, in response to what Lefty's saying, I think it's a great time to re-evaluate community titles as they are, and definitely think about how they're being used. There's generally a lot of apathy towards community events and championships right now - is that something that's par for the course? Or is there a way to make everyone happy and involved? Abandoning community titles altogether is a big step, and a radical one, but it could possibly allow for events to be more inclusive, and not be clogged up with the salt we're seeing repeatedly, like what just happened with March Madness, and what happens with every major community tournament. In addition to this, tons of these e-feds have their own titles and structures, and we've got a lot of great edit-makers here who we should be focusing on and letting them shine. What we have right now with community events isn't doing that.
With that in mind, I think it might be time to brainstorm a variety of things. First of all, what could be done to fix the current system? Do we even want a structure in place to facilitate collaboration at all? If we do, what should it look like? FM's obviously upset with how things are going, and justifiably so, as they've put a lot of time and effort into supporting the current system as it is - so we can start there. Everyone seems to be in favor of collaboration, as community tournaments fill up exceptionally quickly, so how can we expand that to make more people in this community, especially the ones who can't stream or show their edits off to the world, feel welcomed and appreciated? I know I personally haven't been as active around community events as I could be simply because I feel like there's a sort of wall where I can't show off my edits, so I'm not necessarily a part of the greater C!C community. How can that be mitigated?
Basically, if people want a community overreach, and have issues with its current form, or ways to improve it, I think this situation is a great way to start voicing them and maybe building a much closer-knit community and e-fed system.
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