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Post by bnavarro on Mar 16, 2019 18:45:00 GMT
Maybe marty’s Grunts will be added in the ps4 version. I also hope white and the rest are added with the ps4 jr so we have a complete NJPW roster.
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Post by astrozombie on Mar 16, 2019 18:51:52 GMT
How do you use the Rainmaker Through? How do you link to something useful besides a taunt? Would you just have to crank up the percent on a leaping cutter if you wanted to see a rainmaker through into a leaping cutter?
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Post by Senator Phillips on Mar 16, 2019 19:00:33 GMT
How do you use the Rainmaker Through? How do you link to something useful besides a taunt? Would you just have to crank up the percent on a leaping cutter if you wanted to see a rainmaker through into a leaping cutter? Pretty much, just carefully regulate how you get opponents into standing dazed situations and that could be useful. |
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Post by FlashBurton on Mar 16, 2019 19:04:39 GMT
How do you use the Rainmaker Through? How do you link to something useful besides a taunt? Would you just have to crank up the percent on a leaping cutter if you wanted to see a rainmaker through into a leaping cutter? Pretty much yeah, the only useful thing you can chain it to is a running move |
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Post by Fuee on Mar 16, 2019 20:42:13 GMT
And they already confirmed that Yujiro would be added in a future patch along with Henare, Shingo Takagi, and Jay White. Man I really hope Henare comes with some sort of haka-esque taunt |
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Post by DM_PSX on Mar 16, 2019 23:55:08 GMT
How do you use the Rainmaker Through? How do you link to something useful besides a taunt? Would you just have to crank up the percent on a leaping cutter if you wanted to see a rainmaker through into a leaping cutter? Pretty much yeah, the only useful thing you can chain it to is a running move You can chain it into anything in a dazed state. It's extremely useful. |
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Post by FlashBurton on Mar 17, 2019 13:41:59 GMT
Pretty much yeah, the only useful thing you can chain it to is a running move You can chain it into anything in a dazed state. It's extremely useful. Like what? There's taunts, running moves & post moves, that's it |
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Post by DM_PSX on Mar 17, 2019 13:57:28 GMT
You can chain it into anything in a dazed state. It's extremely useful. Like what? There's taunts, running moves & post moves, that's it Knowing what state a move puts the opponent in, and carefully planning out that state at the proper damage level can be as good as a priority. This move, like many others, puts your opponent in the dazed state. You have full control over what happens in the dazed state at 3 different points of the ring, at all damage levels. If you set rainmaker through to 100% at LRG damage, and set 100% back grapple at LRG dazed, you have an infinite loop of rainmaker throughs. If you tweak the percentages on that back grapple and put a chance of an actual rainmaker, you can have a spot where you are most likely to miss several rainmakers with a small chance to hit one. If you prioritize the rainmaker through to the 'look around crowd taunt', or the shrug, and then the default dazed behavior is a standing clothesline, you have a nice sequence where you miss the clothelines from the back grapple, shrug it off, and then turn around the hit it. etc... etc... etc... |
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Post by FlashBurton on Mar 17, 2019 14:10:50 GMT
Like what? There's taunts, running moves & post moves, that's it Knowing what state a move puts the opponent in, and carefully planning out that state at the proper damage level can be as good as a priority. This move, like many others, puts your opponent in the dazed state. You have full control over what happens in the dazed state at 3 different points of the ring, at all damage levels. If you set rainmaker through to 100% at LRG damage, and set 100% back grapple at LRG dazed, you have an infinite loop of rainmaker throughs. If you tweak the percentages on that back grapple and put a chance of an actual rainmaker, you can have a spot where you are most likely to miss several rainmakers with a small chance to hit one. If you prioritize the rainmaker through to the 'look around crowd taunt', or the shrug, and then the default dazed behavior is a standing clothesline, you have a nice sequence where you miss the clothelines from the back grapple, shrug it off, and then turn around the hit it. etc... etc... etc... That's very true but then it heavily restricts your logic options, like, I'd never want 100% back grapple or 100% lariat at Stand Dazed state at Large damage,. I'd be so much better if we had the option in Priority logic to follow up with a Front/Back grapple or strike move |
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Post by IamAres on Mar 18, 2019 2:26:54 GMT
It's actually not too bad to do that at LARGE damage, because it isn't as hard as you'd think to control how often they're gonna pick the guy up from the ground - which, depending on how the rest of him is set up, is the only "default" action that is going to consistently leave your opponent standing dazed. You can easily spread points amongst your pins, holds and attacks and not have many, or any, points in picking the guy up. That way you can make it so the Rainmaker Throw is the only reliable way to put them in that position, and you can set that position to be whatever you want to see.
CRITICAL damage, though, is another story - while mechanically and theoretically, you could do the same thing, the fact that you can't lean into those holds and pins when the opponent is down means you've potentially only got a couple moves to use if you don't want to pick them up into a dazed position. So you're going to see whatever stomp/elbowdrop/etc. you have set there ad nauseam.
Essentially, this means you could use it to set up cool spots in large damage, but it's a lot more restrictive to use it to set up a finisher in critical damage. You might be able to make it work (well, work without murdering the rest of your match) with varied enough down moves, but it'd be really nice to have the option to just prio into it.
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Post by OrochiGeese on Mar 18, 2019 3:43:32 GMT
100% agreed.
In FPR, I had to endure about 100 stomps and "roll over opponent" instances at the end of each match when using my "ECHO Lariat" strategy with RYOMA in order to stop him from picking the opponent up and going for the standing/running lariat in every situation other than the one that I wanted him to use (which was a 50% "Pick Up opponent" priority after his "Burning Lariat"). I was so glad that we got the ability to priority into running moves for FPW pretty early on in Early Access. But not having the priority into standing moves means that we've been really limited as to what we can do. We can make certain things work, but not without compromises to other parts of the edit that I'm often not willing to make.
To me, successful "unofficial" priorities have always been about three considerations:
1) Does the game engine reliably allow the second move to follow the first?
2) Can you get that result without spamming the second move every time a specific condition occurs throughout the match?
3) Can you get the above two results without overly burdening another major part of the match or moveset category?
I really like the potential of the new "Rainmaker Through" move. But, as far as I can tell, it doesn't really do anything different (in the way that it gives us an eligible standing dazed opponent) than any of the previous "B" strikes or moves (like the atomic drop to a dazed opponent) have given us. I think it may be the first one of these moves in back grapple, and that's pretty cool, but that's where the novelty ends in regards to the effect of the move. And even though all of these types of moves pass the first of my tests, they don't do so great with the third test of mine, especially in comparison to what we get with running strikes now. For FPR, setting up an unofficial priority into standing or running strikes against dazed opponents was done the same way. Now it's easy with running strikes due to the official priority and a chore with standing ones.
For standing strikes against dazed opponents, not only do you have to avoid "Pick Up Opponent" for face up and face down in "Near Death" category, you ALSO have to avoid choosing moves in your Front/Back Grapple O category for "Near Death" that leave the opponent standing dazed. That means you have to fill your O categories up with submission, technical, DQ, and auto-pin moves. You have to essentially control your edit in at least 3 key categories to avoid the opponent standing up dazed so that they only are dazed after the "Rainmaker Through." It's not the biggest deal in the world. My "ECHO Lariat" version of RYOMA still worked well overall. But it's annoying to have to do with FPW.
Furthermore, all bets are off when you take these edits into multi-wrestler matches and some other wrestler stuns an opponent too early or too often in a way that you don't want, triggering the unofficial priority. I wouldn't even take "ECHO Lariat" RYOMA into tag matches for this reason cause I'd get some bad finishes.
Overall, it is really disappointing that we have to still set edits up like this to use "standing strike" unofficial priorities when we have been given "running strike" official priorities. Just because it's possible to use those unofficial priorities doesn't mean the edit isn't being fundamentally limited in other ways (or isn't spamming spots if we aren't choosing to limit them). We would benefit a TON from Spike giving us that category as an official priority ender. It's too restrictive and unnecessary that we have to llimit our edits in these other ways just because Spike won't give us this. I had fun trying these strategies out in FPR but in FPW it feels like we're working too hard to do something that Spike should be working to give us, and something we've been asking them for since late 2017 too.
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Post by Spunk on Mar 18, 2019 5:50:44 GMT
Yeah, like, look, it's cool, but having to tailor your logic to get it to do something cool is perhaps not the best thing. It's clear that they *could* do priority moves for standing strikes, but they just haven't.
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Post by OrochiGeese on Mar 18, 2019 5:54:16 GMT
Agreed. It's like "hey, it would be really cool if we could breathe underwater so let's turn our lungs into gills but then realize that we can never breathe outside of the water again."
Thanks Spike for giving us genetically modified fishfolk edits 🐟
...this metaphor is 100% airtight.
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Post by Zealot on Mar 18, 2019 6:12:34 GMT
Priorities that link to standing strikes are long overdue.
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Post by Spunk on Mar 19, 2019 0:24:38 GMT
What's frustrating is that it's a feature that we know is possible. Carl has shown that adding more positions to priorities is not only possible, but not super complicated.
It's also frustrating when they show us what kind of cool stuff they're capable of. Like the endless German? Holy shit is that cool. Why not a vertical suplex version?
Strike exchanges? Awesome, why not expand the number of strikes you can use and hell, why not make an AKI-esque strike system for grapples where you can pick a few strikes and your character will have those options?
I feel like we've barely scratched the surface and it bums me out that it's gonna be only mods where we get to see this stuff explored.
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