|
|
Post by LankyLefty17 on Feb 12, 2019 20:40:32 GMT
Has the latest patch altered other logic beyond the Irish whip stuff? Edits that were very passive in the early match stages seem to dialled up to 11 now and seem way more aggressive... Maybe? Matches feel a bit quicker, but I've been dabbling around with some of my more powerful edits of late, not the usual ones.
I have not noticed any pacing changes, or any change in "aggression" for what its worth.
|
|
|
|
Post by OrochiGeese on Feb 12, 2019 21:05:27 GMT
Has the latest patch altered other logic beyond the Irish whip stuff? Edits that were very passive in the early match stages seem to dialled up to 11 now and seem way more aggressive... What specific behavior are you referring to there when you say they seem way more aggressive? Are they winning more grapples? Cause that could just be a coincidence and probably is. I haven't noticed any edits winning grapples more than usual and it would be surprising (but not shocking at this point) if Spike (accidentally or not) changed the CPU-controlled grappling system from a random number generator to connect to edit logic. If a few edits seem to be winning more grapples than in the past, that is likely not related to the patch. Sometimes edits can just keep winning grapples throughout a match (like 90% of them) and when that happens after an edit update or a patch, my first instinct is to assume a connection but it never has been. Sometimes the RNG of the game just keeps landing on one of the edits in terms of grapple winning (or countering). At that point, I usually just turn the match off LOL. Are they getting to medium damage quicker? Perhaps move stats were changed? |
|
|
|
Post by Nth on Feb 12, 2019 21:08:58 GMT
Spike-Chunsoft should actually provide a detailed patch log for every update they do like other games. It would make finding and fixing problems so much quicker and easier.
|
|
|
|
Post by Recall on Feb 12, 2019 21:36:12 GMT
My Shinobu edit was circling a lot more pre patch, hit the odd strike early on and grapples weren’t a thing until 5 minutes in, now he is going to grapples much quicker and the circling seems non existent.
|
|
|
|
Post by OrochiGeese on Feb 12, 2019 23:04:32 GMT
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I understand what you are saying. How many matches have you simmed with him since the patch and what are your logic % settings for each move in that category?
It's certainly possible that Spike somehow changed the RNG engine somehow, even if they didn't mean to. Who knows, maybe they even adjusted damage categories a little so that an opponent's HP that would have been considered "Large Damage" pre-patch is now considered "Small Damage" in that Standing category.
|
|
|
|
Post by view619 on Feb 12, 2019 23:29:04 GMT
Spike-Chunsoft should actually provide a detailed patch log for every update they do like other games. It would make finding and fixing problems so much quicker and easier.  |
|
|
|
Post by Recall on Feb 13, 2019 11:09:31 GMT
Whatever theyve changed in the patch has really altered the quality of the matches. I recorded two simmed matches. Only a 16 minute video: youtu.be/ZQGrYT1C8Y0Match 1) Shinobu vs Myself (2 edits I’ve made) The match worked well and concluded as I would have expected, the circling was reduced down to about 30 seconds at the start. Far more corner work than I guess I expected but there was no major issue with Irish whip attacks landing though the quantity of Irish whips was very high. The finish was what I knew it would be. Match 2) 2 other personal edits Again nothing really wrong here and quite entertaining, a couple minor collisions off whips but big moves were hit and the finish was a tremendous surprise. These are edits that always struggled at the start to help for that dramatic comeback later but what has happened is instead I’m getting competitive matches with nice finishing built up sequences though any and all moves seem to be off Irish whips. Granted neither match eclipse the 85% match rating but it’s higher than previous simmed tests. If anything the logic worked better than it ever has in regards to getting a higher match rating before and I’m not very good at the logic stuff at all. Though I do feel there are far too many whips and not enough regular moves done off of grapples. |
|
|
|
Post by OrochiGeese on Feb 13, 2019 21:53:19 GMT
It's hard to tell exactly why your matches are changing so much.
For most of my edits, I have my irish whips set to 20% in the early portion of the match. Sometimes I tend to see more of them in a sim than usual. That's just kind of how it goes with the logic % ratio I have.
It's really hard to tell though if the patch impacted your matches and caused more whips.
But if you are seeing irish whips too much for your liking now, you can definitely reduce the %.
If you are seeing the irish whips toward the corner too much, you can reduce your Showmanship setting.
|
|
|
|
Post by DM_PSX on Feb 13, 2019 23:35:55 GMT
When you set the percentages to something, it doesn't mean they'll always do that action x% of the time, it means every time that situation comes up, there is a new x% chance they will do that. It's possible to have long runs of matches where almost never take that action. Just like you can roll a dice all afternoon and almost never see a 3 come up, despite there being a 1 in 6 chance every roll. You also have to consider the actions of the other party, and how often they enable or prevent that situation from even coming up.
|
|
|
|
Post by OrochiGeese on Feb 14, 2019 5:19:11 GMT
All well said 👏
Most of the time I assume the game is giving me some funky die rolls before I try to even modify existing logic, let alone think that something external has changed things. It's just that with this recent patch breaking some things, I wouldn't be completely shocked if some other mechanics got accidentally modified.
I like to think of the RNG system like a Roulette wheel. A 1% move would have just 1 slot and a 10% move would have 10 slots for the eventually revealed "RNG ball" to fall into on each given turn. You can stack the odds in your favor by giving a move a higher % but you can never guarantee what will actually happen unless you have 100/0% in a category. I've seen matches where a "2%" move occurs like 3 times in 10 minutes and a 10% move doesn't occur at all. It's frustrating but that's how RNG's go. Percentages may predict the future in regards to "weighted chance" but they don't say what will actually happen.
CPU simming is more Vinnie Vegas than math 🃏
|
|
|
|
Post by LankyLefty17 on Feb 14, 2019 5:41:37 GMT
All well said 👏 Most of the time I assume the game is giving me some funky die rolls before I try to even modify existing logic, let alone think that something external has changed things. It's just that with this recent patch breaking some things, I wouldn't be completely shocked if some other mechanics got accidentally modified. I like to think of the RNG system like a Roulette wheel. A 1% move would have just 1 slot and a 10% move would have 10 slots for the eventually revealed "RNG ball" to fall into on each given turn. You can stack the odds in your favor by giving a move a higher % but you can never guarantee what will actually happen unless you have 100/0% in a category. I've seen matches where a "2%" move occurs like 3 times in 10 minutes and a 10% move doesn't occur at all. It's frustrating but that's how RNG's go. Percentages may predict the future in regards to "weighted chance" but they don't say what will actually happen. CPU simming is more Vinnie Vegas than math 🃏 Which honestly is what makes Fire Pro so much fun (and all out maddening). You can go months without seeing a move set at 1%, then see it three times in a single match... |
|
|
|
Post by DM_PSX on Feb 14, 2019 6:59:32 GMT
All well said 👏 Most of the time I assume the game is giving me some funky die rolls before I try to even modify existing logic, let alone think that something external has changed things. It's just that with this recent patch breaking some things, I wouldn't be completely shocked if some other mechanics got accidentally modified. I like to think of the RNG system like a Roulette wheel. A 1% move would have just 1 slot and a 10% move would have 10 slots for the eventually revealed "RNG ball" to fall into on each given turn. You can stack the odds in your favor by giving a move a higher % but you can never guarantee what will actually happen unless you have 100/0% in a category. I've seen matches where a "2%" move occurs like 3 times in 10 minutes and a 10% move doesn't occur at all. It's frustrating but that's how RNG's go. Percentages may predict the future in regards to "weighted chance" but they don't say what will actually happen. CPU simming is more Vinnie Vegas than math 🃏 Which honestly is what makes Fire Pro so much fun (and all out maddening). You can go months without seeing a move set at 1%, then see it three times in a single match... More important, you can sim the same 2 wrestlers 25 times, and see 25 completely different matches, while still being completely in character. |
|
|
|
Post by OrochiGeese on Feb 14, 2019 7:17:51 GMT
^
That would be a good "back of the box" review quote 😎
|
|
|
|
Post by Recall on Feb 14, 2019 10:13:44 GMT
I’m happy how I’ve managed to get the logic to hit the top rope moves only to finish the match on the overly athletic edits. Though I don’t really understand how I did it, I just know I’ve seemingly hit the sweet spot so it works almost all the time.
The barrier in understanding how the logic system works feels quite high.
|
|
|
|
Post by DM_PSX on Feb 14, 2019 10:43:10 GMT
I’m happy how I’ve managed to get the logic to hit the top rope moves only to finish the match on the overly athletic edits. Though I don’t really understand how I did it, I just know I’ve seemingly hit the sweet spot so it works almost all the time. The barrier in understanding how the logic system works feels quite high. It's really simple. The AI rolls an 100 sided die. It maps to your percentages and picks the move to attempt. If you have a priority move, it does that. That's it. Pay attention to what states your moveset leaves the opponent in. If you have moves that leave he opponent standing dazed a lot, then you are going to have to pay extra special attention to how you handle those dazed states, because that is going to be your match. Also note how often your opponent lands on their front or back and what moves you want to hit. You might have to tweak the roll opponent percentage. Can't do knee breakers if the opponent is always on their back. Pay attention to how you act in other states to make sure you aren't stopping other states from happening as often. Down/Dazed near Corner/Center happen above down/dazed, so you have to choose not to run or climb to pass through to them. (only when they near corner / center though). Especially if you want to do back grapples, as the best time is during standing dazed (or really, the only time). Just always remember that your percentages are for EACH time you're in that situation. It doesn't matter what came before or after. 1% means every time you're in that situation there is a new 1% chance. It's okay to have moves at 0% and only do them at certain times. A really strong standing or running strike can be saved for when they are dazed in high damage. You can have your submission move finisher at 0% and used only after a certain grapple move as a priority...etc... |
|
