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Post by eggie25 on Sept 4, 2018 12:34:45 GMT
I been experimenting with CPU logic for a while to find the best balance for myself and realized that "Cooperation" doesn't need to be too high at all. Now keep in mind that all of my edits have 95 Showmanship and 30 Flexibility. These two numbers work perfectly for me. Back to Cooperation.
I realized that the higher Cooperation is not only determines the frequency of how often your parter grabs the opponent from behind while standing in your corner, but also how "early" he begins doing so. If someone has Cooperation at 100, they will start grabbing from behind when the opponent has about 40-45% HP. Cooperation at 50 starts a little later and is still extremely consistent. By the time i got to 25, that's when it became very shakey but still frequent enough.
I don't go over 60 Cooperation for tag teams and it is working out great so far. This has allowed for more corner grapple moves but less regular grapple moves to create a better balance. They are frequent enough still but not an every minute affair. I've seen the Doomsday device more this week than i have seen in the past year because instead of both partners grappling at the same time, all of the time, it allows for one partner not to engage so the one who does engage has a chance to throw the opponent to the corner. At this point, both partners more times than not will engage and do a corner grapple move.
I was simming a tornado tag this morning between the Dudley's and Rock n Roll Express. Here is my setup regarding their front grapples only:
Devon - 3D (Bubba performs the cutter)
Bubba - Double Powerbomb
Morton - Double Suplex
Gibson - Double Dropkick
The Match has gone on over 10 min. I will finish it when i get home. Express attempted two double teams which were reversed earlier in the match. Haven't gone back to it in a few min. The Dudley's hit 1 Double Powerbomb, and a 3D later on that caught me off guard when i saw it. When you expand a teams moveset, it reduces the number of times you see the same move. Hence why i didn't give Morton and Gibson both the Double Dropkick (Their real life tag finisher).
Sorry for the book. This is just simply to say that Cooperation probably shouldn't be too high in general and surely not too low. Partners will still help out frequently if it's 30 and up but you don't have to go 80 and up either. It's all about balance. You want to see tag maneuvers but you also want to keep moderation in what you see.
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Post by Severla on Sept 4, 2018 16:31:15 GMT
Considering how wonky tag matches can be at times, topics on number testing is always welcome.
So would you say 60 as a 'tag specialist' creates a nice balance? Maybe 40-50 for shaky teams and notably lower for non-tags?
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Post by mbxfilms on Sept 4, 2018 16:38:09 GMT
Always wondered if there were better ways to get teams to be better together than singles guys. The issue I had was you give D-Von the 3D, and he has priority to pine after it, but if we wasn't the legal man when they did it, then the cover isn't happening. Same for any double team.
I would LOVE to see the double and triple team corner moves more. Mexican and Japanese team matches always have the multi whip running spot where everyone hits a running corner strike.
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Post by eggie25 on Sept 4, 2018 18:06:00 GMT
Considering how wonky tag matches can be at times, topics on number testing is always welcome. So would you say 60 as a 'tag specialist' creates a nice balance? Maybe 40-50 for shaky teams and notably lower for non-tags? Yes. That's exactly what im considering. As of now i haven't settled on everyone else just yet. I have 60 for tag specialist as of now. Im still tinkering. When i get home i will look into it more. In my mind i have 60, 45, and 30 as my 3 values for everyone. Hopefully it works out. |
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Post by eggie25 on Sept 4, 2018 18:11:27 GMT
Always wondered if there were better ways to get teams to be better together than singles guys. The issue I had was you give D-Von the 3D, and he has priority to pine after it, but if we wasn't the legal man when they did it, then the cover isn't happening. Same for any double team. I would LOVE to see the double and triple team corner moves more. Mexican and Japanese team matches always have the multi whip running spot where everyone hits a running corner strike. That's the issue i face with the 3D. If Devon isn't legal, he won't go for the pin. You face this issue with all tag moves that require a certain member to have a certain position. |
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Post by mbxfilms on Sept 4, 2018 18:41:09 GMT
I've also had to resort to having cutplay off just to get matches to end. So if your numbers lead to decent double teaming and less break-ups of pins then it may be a win-win method. I will be trying it for sure.
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Post by eggie25 on Sept 4, 2018 19:28:35 GMT
I've also had to resort to having cutplay off just to get matches to end. So if your numbers lead to decent double teaming and less break-ups of pins then it may be a win-win method. I will be trying it for sure. I haven't really studied the breakup of pins. I keep cut play on. My tag matches generally go from the 18-28 min fire pro time. Im sure i can get them shorter but im fine with where they are at. A lot of that has to do with positioning. The cpu doesn't run to break up pins. So if you are closer to your corner, it will increase the chance of a clean pin. |
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Post by Severla on Sept 4, 2018 20:01:30 GMT
Movement Speed also helps. Slow ass giants may not make it in the time a speedy lucha would.
I know that, for the while, the 'make tag matches shorter' suggestion was to just literally tank your tag members' defensive stats and to not expect much of them in singles against people who werent also tag team guys.
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Post by eggie25 on Sept 4, 2018 20:19:24 GMT
Movement Speed also helps. Slow ass giants may not make it in the time a speedy lucha would. I know that, for the while, the 'make tag matches shorter' suggestion was to just literally tank your tag members' defensive stats and to not expect much of them in singles against people who werent also tag team guys. Really? I would never do that lol. I simply set up my logic, found my combination of 95 Showmanship, and 30 Flexibility for all and went from there. Cooperation is just what i been tinkering with lately. What works for me may not work for others. To get what i wanted i had to simplify things. My strategy is give everyone similar set ups to begin with and then differentiate. That's why my Showmanship and Flexibility are the same for everyone. Those are my foundations. From there im able to go about styles such as ground, highflying, power, etc. |
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Post by pfadrian on Sept 4, 2018 21:46:03 GMT
Interesting. What do you set discretion and touchwork at? I found if discretikn is too low, they stop tagging out as they tire.
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Post by DakkoN on Sept 4, 2018 22:45:40 GMT
What setting do you guys use for your referee's Run In Check and Involvement?
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Post by eggie25 on Sept 4, 2018 23:04:33 GMT
Interesting. What do you set discretion and touchwork at? I found if discretikn is too low, they stop tagging out as they tire. I used to use different values for touchwork but now i stick with 95 for all to avoid the not tagging out situation later in the match. Discretion i have my own formula based on weight classes. 205 and below = 25 206 to 275 = 50 276 to 374 = 75 375 and up = 50 (used to be 100) |
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Post by eggie25 on Sept 4, 2018 23:05:29 GMT
What setting do you guys use for your referee's Run In Check and Involvement? I use the default ref. I've never looked into refs. Edit: I think i will use 45 Cooperation for singles. 55 for midcard tag-teams or singles stars who spent a decent portion of their career being a part of a legit tag-team. 65 Elite tag-teams or singles stars who can be tag-team specialist (ex. Shawn Michaels). |
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Post by eggie25 on Sept 6, 2018 1:17:10 GMT
I believe that it's best to have a Ref who has fast movement to get into a counting position quickly for tag matches. I created a ref for the first time but i didn't want him to be far off from Mr. Judgement. I simply made his down time long and his move speed fast. Everything else i left as is. The ref move speed at fast alone is a blessing. By the ref getting into position quicker, it allows the cpu to not break up pins on time if properly positioned.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 4:18:55 GMT
A few notes from the code: A wrestler with a cooperation of 20 or below will never cooperate in tag team matches as the inactive man except when trying to make the save during a pin or submission, anything 20 or less might as well be zero for anything other than cut play.
A wrestler standing on the apron will never attempt to grab a wrestler that has been thrown into the turnbuckle no matter their cooperation. A Wrestler with a cooperation higher than 20 will attempt it if the opponent gets and stays to close and is in a neutral state (walking, running, standing, or groggy).
A wrestler's cooperation is never checked for saving their partner from a pin or submission. It is also never checked if the opponent's teammate enters the ring to break a pin that the wrestler's partner is initiating. Though having activated cut play too recently will still keep the AI from entering.
A wrestler with a cooperation of 34 or greater will move towards the friendly corner when using a front headlock in a tag match, a wrestler with a cooperation of 33 or less will ALWAYS move towards the center regardless of it being a singles or tag match. The opponent's health does not make holds from behind more or less frequent. The will not occur until an opponent's health reaches about 40% and will occur at the same frequency after that. The decision to do a piggyback vs. a hold from behind is linear. The AI will always attempt to do a piggyback first, and if that succeeds that's the end of the process. It will only attempt to do a hold from behind if the piggyback fails first. The piggyback (doomsday position) requires the following things: 1) The grapple must happen close to the friendly corner, 2) a teammate must have a move that is able to connect with an opponent in the doomsday position, 3) the teammate with the capable move must be within diving distance of the grapple. The game doesn't stop once it finds a single teammate (not sure why, because continuing the loop is unnecessary, and this is inefficient) it will check every teammate, even though only one of them needs to pass the check. |
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