Tips for longer simmed matches?

Who said that you have to be 250 points to do a 40-minute match? You're making what's called "Strawman Arguments." Please learn about logical fallacies.

And who told you that Okada is the only wrestler in Fire Pro History to have Reborn?

No, absolutely clueless would mean not even knowing how to defend position or hold on effectively, as Art Jimmerson did. That's why there are ratings like 2 or 3 as options instead of just 1.

It was a worked sumo match, not an actual sumo bout. Using it as any kind of metric for Big Show, MMA Juggernaut would be counterintuitive. Otherwise, I'm not sure why you brought it up...[/quote]
What we're discussing is that there are multiple other match types an edit may end up in in some rare circumstances. Not just MMA, but also things like Sumo, or comedy matches. And of course many others. That's been said several times.


Once the opponent is down, the wrestler is going to follow their logic for large damage -> opponent down, which is going to be different than the beginning of the match. If they're set to pin, work the leg arm, etc., at that stage, then they'll do that. Sometimes they use a simple transition move like a bodyslam or (in Flair's case), a leg trip which is actually a weak grapple move.

The latter one has the double benefit of being both accurate to how Flair wrestled and increasing the length of the match, which is the subject of the thread.

And thus, yes, in some cases the wrestlers have medium or even weak grapple transition moves in large damage, and it helps the matches and is more accurate. So I would highly suggest that for OP or anyone making a Flair.


Several posters in this thread only half-paid attention to the point and responded in a childish manner as a result. Not saying it's you, but there are definitely people who did.


I'm not reliant on RNG, the "large damage down" or "near death" sections tell the wrestler what to do when the opponent is down in larger or critical damage. Sometimes Flair and Steamboat used simpler moves to put the opponent down.

Anyway...

The core of what you're actually saying is that only large damage grapple moves are supposed to be done in large damage. Your approach is clearly that the build in the match comes from the pre-programmed progression from small damage moves to large moves, and after that the wrestlers should just do large moves until one of them gets a win. That's why you said that it's "artificial," to do otherwise, and earlier, that essentially you don't think long matches can be done well.

I actually agree with you. If you assume that, then you're right. And you wouldn't be able to have good long matches.

But if you actually watch how Flair and Steamboat worked their long matches, they progressed the match by selling more over time, and in many cases used simple moves even late in the match. And having them do strong moves, but also continue with those weaker moves, causing them to eventually sell body part pain, kick out slower or be pinned by simple roll-ups, droop their arms etc., gives you the variety and long-term progress that makes 30 and 40-minute matches actually watchable, AND is more accurate to their style.

Over the course of years of designing these wrestlers in this engine, this is the absolute best approach that I found and what I shared with the OP.

I've played this game for a long time and I have good reasons for what I do. And I think anyone who reads what I'm saying should be able to tell that.

What Severla is telling you is just flat-out wrong. Okada is not the only wrestler to have Reborn and most people who played since the Pre-English days know that.

I wasn't the one who said anything about newcomers.  You asked where he got his info and I linked you to Phil Parent's almanac that he's putting together.  Even if it is incorrect, so it's TWO wrestlers out of literally a thousand.  That doesn't mean just toss it on every Tom, Dick, and Harry for the sake of making matches longer.  You can do that without having to give  someone literally the most overpowered skill in the entire game.  It sounds like your matches aren't long because of the logic and parameter settings.  They're long because one of the wrestlers has fuckin' Reborn and nobody can put him down..  I also like how you said Severla was "flat-out wrong" when literally one sentence out of a paragraph and two answers was incorrect. 

Happy to hear that you're still getting results you enjoy despite the slight cluster going on around your question

The grapple variance can certainly work to keep some moves fresh, yeah.

Thanks. You guys did a good job showing me that having a ton of edits at 200+ might not be the best idea.

Overall, I understand Okada and Omega at 250 and 248 are crazy anomalies. Is the scale for the rest of the guys a bad idea as well? Having Naito, Tanahashi around 220, Suzuki around 200, the next tier of guys (Goto, Ishii, Fale, Ibushi, Shibata) right around 180? Top Juniors prob at 170, mid carders around 150, lower midcards floating around 120, young lions around 80?

Awesome. I will keep that in mind when editing Tanahashi. Thanks for helping out as I appreciate the effort to give some guidance on what is going to work well. When thinking about it more I shouldn't want my edits to be completely incompatible as that seems silly, but luckily the default NJPW parameters aren't really that far off from what I was thinking. Some seem off (TAKA is higher than Juice and Elgin?) but overall the general outline is smooth.

Thanks again for the advice!