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Post by BakFu on Feb 20, 2021 8:02:39 GMT
Remember when these were considered match ending moves?   |
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Post by jameshilliv on Feb 20, 2021 9:55:55 GMT
I miss those days. I think that's one of the reasons I can't enjoy wrestling anymore. It's like the wrestlers have to find some complex move different from everyone else so they can stand out but to me they take away from the match. Every once in a while I'll flip by a match and watch for a few minutes and it seems like most matches are just about the wrestlers getting in their big moves, but not in a way that flows. I also don't get moves like the one in FPW there the wrestler lifts the opponent onto their shoulders like the doomsday device setup, drops them forward to catch them, and then do a german suplex. What is the point of lifting them on their shoulders? It's just a waste of energy.
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Post by Dawnbr3ak3r on Feb 20, 2021 12:13:51 GMT
Sounds like you're talking about Omega's Croyt's Wrath Suplex. He's very divisive. Some like him, some don't. I don't particularly care for his wrestling, but all of his signature moves are in-line with the "anime super-hero/villain" schtick. I see it as a carry-over from his days in DDT. As far as match ending moves go - Finishers are a paradox. Nothing is a finisher, while everything is a finisher. A DDT is both a finisher and not-a-finisher. A Powerbomb is both a finisher and not-a-finisher. Pick any move and it more-or-less follows the formula. That's why suspension of disbelief exists. As far as I see it, "Make it make sense." For example, Raku's Oyesama Express: This is completely silly on the surface, but there's more to it than that. "When someone goes to sleep they become dead weight, being a lot heavier than being awake/active, making the Good Night Express perfectly logical."
Now you have a move that's considered a finisher. |
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Post by kokushishin on Feb 20, 2021 13:31:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2021 14:09:05 GMT
As with anything else, context is important. There was a time when the DDT meant "the end," which is understandable since it's basically dropping someone on their head. When every tag team uses it to set up a mid-match hope spot, though, it does lose impact.
See also the Sweet Chin Music versus practically every junior having a superkick during the 00s.
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Post by OrochiGeese on Feb 22, 2021 11:01:06 GMT
Remember when these were considered match ending moves? I also remember when the mere existence of Alex Wright meant that the match would end early 😁 I do think that there's been a general "escalation of arms" in wrestling but the way I deal with it is: 1) Not watching as much anymore! 😂 2) Rationalizing that there's a difference between a general mid-match DDT performed by a lot of people and the Arn Anderson " brand" DDT. (complete with Four Horsemen advertisements!) Sure, anyone can do a regular DDT and have it be semi-effective but some people mastered it so it ended a match legitimately. Everyone else is jelly 🍇 I also don't get moves like the one in FPW there the wrestler lifts the opponent onto their shoulders like the doomsday device setup, drops them forward to catch them, and then do a german suplex. What is the point of lifting them on their shoulders? It's just a waste of energy. Yeah, I also don't like moves when it seems like the effort to get someone in position somehow counts as damage to the opponent. I do like the "Ripcord" moves cause I feel like that does damage to someone's arm and neck being pulled but I don't like that doomsday device into a german suplex. There have been a lot of WWE finishers where there's a ton of movement only to end up in a move that is basically just a bodyslam 🤷♂️ I'm just waiting for them to introduce a Pizza Maker character who literally just spins his opponent in the torture rack position, flips him in the air once, then gently places him on the mat for the pin 😁 |
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Post by BakFu on Feb 22, 2021 17:40:37 GMT
There have been a lot of WWE finishers where there's a ton of movement only to end up in a move that is basically just a bodyslam 🤷♂️ I'm just waiting for them to introduce a Pizza Maker character who literally just spins his opponent in the torture rack position, flips him in the air once, then gently places him on the mat for the pin 😁 YES! I’ve been trying to figure this out for ages! I remember seeing John cena way back when he started (after the Prototype), big jacked up guy, lifting guys into the DVD position, then proceeds to execute a standing fireman’s carry... seeing him put big slow on his shoulders and do it was an impressive feat of strength, but yeah, lots of movement and hype for what is effectively a body slam. Canadian destroyer, AJ Styles move, stuff like that. I don’t know, big set up, no pay off impact wise. I also remember when the mere existence of Alex Wright meant that the match would end early 😁 I marked out HARD for this! 🤣 As far as the pizza guy goes, if he was Napoli style, a modification would have to be made where he’d have to fold the opponent in half and pin him a libretto. 🙂 |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 17:59:38 GMT
To be fair the Canadian Destroyer is still basically a pile driver but that flip does stretch suspension of disbelief.
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Post by BakFu on Feb 22, 2021 20:09:19 GMT
One I’ve NEVER understood was the Flatliner/downward spiral. That looks like you’re giving yourself an STO. Loved Chris Kanyon and didn’t mind Edge (although a guy his size spearing people always looked like shit to me as well), but that move always looks awkward.
THIS move on the other hand... 😁
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 21:58:18 GMT
Maybe it's just because I've only ever seen it in games but I never had a problem with the Flatliner. You're not the only one to think it looks like a self STO, though. I even worked that into a feud, where someone adopts the Flatliner as a reversal to his foe's STO.
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Post by gotchism4life on Feb 22, 2021 22:27:46 GMT
Russian Leg Sweep has the same problem with Flatliner, you're taking impact as well. I will credit Bret Hart though, when he did it, he snapped it in such a way that you could believe it hurt the other guy more.For everyone else, it just looks like they're both bumping backwards
In keeping with my Avatar, I obviously miss the days when 1 German Suplex could end a match. I remember the Angle/Benoit feud from 20 years ago...they just kept upping the number of Rolling German Suplexes until it got to 10...no wonder Benoit had brain damage.
I miss the style that emphazied stretching with submissions and then saving the top rope move or the big impact move as the high spot that ended it.
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Post by BakFu on Feb 23, 2021 1:03:33 GMT
Yeah, hart’s Russian leg sweep always looked bad ass, it had some snap to it, but others doing it less so. I thought of that move when I thought of the flatliner, but then I remembered Bret’s version!
The flat liner counter to the sto is great, what an awesome idea! Glad to hear I’m not alone in thinking it looks a little self destructive!
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Post by jameshilliv on Feb 23, 2021 1:59:11 GMT
There used to be a flow to it. Guys would use moves to wear down their opponent until it was time to bring out the big moves. Now it seems like every move is flashy. It's more like showing off than putting on a show.
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Post by OrochiGeese on Feb 23, 2021 6:58:36 GMT
There used to be a flow to it. Guys would use moves to wear down their opponent until it was time to bring out the big moves. Now it seems like every move is flashy. It's more like showing off than putting on a show.That's a really concise and elegantly worded line representing what the problem is! 👏 YES! I’ve been trying to figure this out for ages! I remember seeing John cena way back when he started (after the Prototype), big jacked up guy, lifting guys into the DVD position, then proceeds to execute a standing fireman’s carry... seeing him put big slow on his shoulders and do it was an impressive feat of strength, but yeah, lots of movement and hype for what is effectively a body slam. That's exactly what bothers me about a lot of WWE moves over the past decade. Too many moves confuse the strength needed that it takes the attacker to perform the move with the damage actually done to the defender in receiving it!! It's not the same thing! Like I understand it's really impressive watching Cena lift the Big Show and even like press him once or twice but those presses don't do damage to the Big Show!! I'd rather watch a solid german suplex than someone spinning the opponent around like they are dancing with them only to then place the opponent gingerly on the mat. I think it all started back when Hogan slammed Andre (in front of 1 billion fans on the moon). The feat itself was so impressive, and Andre had never been slammed before, so it made sense for him to get pinned at that point. But it led to that concept being repeated too often and it doesn't work as much. The last time I remember really being impressed by the feat itself was when Lex Luger body slammed Yokozuna. When Brock F5'ed the Big Show it felt a little different. It was impressive mainly cause Heyman built the hell out of the spot ahead of time and because the F5 was already an impressive move. As far as the pizza guy goes, if he was Napoli style, a modification would have to be made where he’d have to fold the opponent in half and pin him a libretto. 🙂 I'll take one of those, please, with some garlic knots and cinnamon sticks 🍕 |
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Post by kokushishin on Feb 23, 2021 16:10:15 GMT
Russian Legsweep is a simple sacrifice throw. Complete Shot is iffier but at the risk of watching way too much Gedo he at least used to get some air on it.
The Styles Clash is one of the weirder ones where the setup makes it more dangerous to take while not necessarily looking better than Goto's.
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