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Post by JimSportsRadio on Jun 8, 2020 14:52:36 GMT
So I have been going back and forth on my time spent with Fire Pro and WE2k19 and I am trying to get some feedback to figure out what I am missing that makes Fire Pro So much more popular then wwe2k19 with most
First off let me state i ONLY sim matches in both games I do not play them. I make up my own federations and run it. I am going to list some pro and cons for me not because I want people to play wwe2k19 but because I want someone to point out why they play more fire pro so maybe I can learn to enjoy it more. And keep in mind I have been messing with the game and mods for 2 months now.
So my biggest complaints with fire pro is two major things really. The lack of momentum. Just seems when watching its obviously a flip of a coin each time two wrestlers lock up has nothing to do with how beat up someone is. Something you can control in wwe2k19. The other is really no control over the outcome. In wwe2k19 it is very easy to make wrestlers very weak so if say I wanted to have Yokozuna come in and dominate his first 15 matches for story line I can almost guarantee that outcome.
Now the thing I love about fire pro is the wrestler community is so deep. I can find any wrestler who ever stepped foot in the ring just about. While wwe2k19 has a lot as well they do not go as in depth as fire pro.
But the roster is the only thing that stands out to me and I feel like I am missing something.
So what I am asking is. Have many of you have tried BOTH games, And in the end prefer fire pro and what put fire pro over the top for you?
Thanks in advance
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Jun 8, 2020 15:40:46 GMT
The appeal of fire pro will always be the fact that you can influence how the wrestler actually wrestles through logic. You can decide when moves happen, how they're set up, and even sequence moves together. There isnt another wrestling game where you have the level of control over how your guy (or girl) behaves in the ring.
2K games are pretty, but they're built to be played. I've always seen that as the distinction. If you want to pick up a controller and play, 2K is your jam. If you want to spend time crafting someone and watching them go, Fire Pro is gonna be your thing.
If you want pre-determined outcomes, simming isn't going to be your thing. Use TEW or something like that. The point of simming is to watch the outcome, not force it to produce something you've already determined in your head (you could also just play to get that outcome).
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Post by JimSportsRadio on Jun 8, 2020 15:46:07 GMT
The appeal of fire pro will always be the fact that you can influence how the wrestler actually wrestles through logic. You can decide when moves happen, how they're set up, and even sequence moves together. There isnt another wrestling game where you have the level of control over how your guy (or girl) behaves in the ring. 2K games are pretty, but they're built to be played. I've always seen that as the distinction. If you want to pick up a controller and play, 2K is your jam. If you want to spend time crafting someone and watching them go, Fire Pro is gonna be your thing. If you want pre-determined outcomes, simming isn't going to be your thing. Use TEW or something like that. The point of simming is to watch the outcome, not force it to produce something you've already determined in your head (you could also just play to get that outcome). Very valid points. I have a lot to learn on how to get the wrestlers in fire pro to do moves in a certain order. I have no idea what TEW is. I will need to look it up. |
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Post by Dawnbr3ak3r on Jun 8, 2020 15:59:23 GMT
There's no real proper way to fine-tune the A.I. in the WWE 2K games. You can fanangle with sliders all you want, but it'll never come close to the advanced A.I. system in Fire Pro. The only one that's remotely similar is King of Coliseum, but we haven't seen one of those in... a while - A long, long while. KoC was basically 3-D Fire Pro, in that regard.
Outside of that, Fire Pro has always been more appealing me visually. It lets me be a lot more creative. I can use it's provided creation system a whole lot more than I can with whatever 2K's creation suite has. Fire Pro has plenty of mask options, 2K has... three? Maybe. Not exactly much variety. You also rely on using outside textures and resources to create anything remotely unique-looking. I generally don't like 2K's creation suite to begin with.
I also don't need to recreate my characters every year in Fire Pro, which I would have to do in 2K's games. World has been out for almost three years; I would have had to recreate these edits three times if it were a 2K game. I hate recreating characters for an arbitrary re-release, especially in an age where games can be patched and updated regularly.
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Post by Senator Phillips on Jun 8, 2020 17:54:49 GMT
As has been mentioned, there's a myriad list of reasons why FPW does simmed matches better. The logic system is broad and deep in terms of what you can control, if you want to make a powerhouse suplex machine that shifts into high flying late in the match, it's doable. If you want to replicate something resembling catch as catch can style, it's doable. You want to make a total jerkwad that always taunts excessively after he pokes eyes or kicks groins, that's possible. Dancing gimmicks? Yep, you can make those work. Want someone to only finish with their finisher? You can do that, too, just by setting their logic properly. You can technically make a wrestler that literally cannot win a match, but I will admit that jobber squashes are a bit tough to achieve for the most part, without going into modpack options on the PC. And that's not even going into the things I've been able to get out of boxing, mma or other martial arts styles in the game, things you absolutely couldn't even begin to approximate in a WWE game.
In short, the versatility is mindboggling in Fire Pro once you start getting a sense of what the possibilities are, but the best way to look at simming isn't in a Vince McMahon role, but in a Dana White mode, looking for potential matches more than definite outcomes.
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Post by JimSportsRadio on Jun 8, 2020 18:00:50 GMT
As has been mentioned, there's a myriad list of reasons why FPW does simmed matches better. The logic system is broad and deep in terms of what you can control, if you want to make a powerhouse suplex machine that shifts into high flying late in the match, it's doable. If you want to replicate something resembling catch as catch can style, it's doable. You want to make a total jerkwad that always taunts excessively after he pokes eyes or kicks groins, that's possible. Dancing gimmicks? Yep, you can make those work. Want someone to only finish with their finisher? You can do that, too, just by setting their logic properly. You can technically make a wrestler that literally cannot win a match, but I will admit that jobber squashes are a bit tough to achieve for the most part, without going into modpack options on the PC. And that's not even going into the things I've been able to get out of boxing, mma or other martial arts styles in the game, things you absolutely couldn't even begin to approximate in a WWE game. In short, the versatility is mindboggling in Fire Pro once you start getting a sense of what the possibilities are, but the best way to look at simming isn't in a Vince McMahon role, but in a Dana White mode, looking for potential matches more than definite outcomes. Looks like I have a lot of reading to do to learn all the in and outs to give this game its fair shot |
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Post by Zealot on Jun 8, 2020 19:04:38 GMT
I would say that it functions properly if I were completely honest.
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Post by Spunk on Jun 8, 2020 19:20:43 GMT
The limitations of Fire Pro are a lot different than the limitations of WWE2K.
As mentioned above, WWE games are meant to be played and with yearly iterations, there tends to be very little growth or change in how the games work. You can import textures and make just about whatever you wish, which is cool, but it also lacks the imagination of a Fire Pro.
Fire Pro's limitations are inside your mind. That sounds weird, right? There are only x-amount of moves (until the move creator gets released), only x-amount of parts (we have a part creator now!) and so forth. Even before we had tools available to make new stuff, Fire Pro was still almost limitless. While not as exhaustive as we'd all wish, Fire Pro allows you to create sequences. Fire Pro allows you to be somewhat meticulous in controlling how a wrestler acts and the matches flow. You can actually force characters in the game to have personalities. If you want to create Stone Cold you can, you can make him act like Stone Cold. Want him to have his old Ringmaster Cobra Clutch but only use it on rare occasions? You can do that! If you assign him that move in a WWE game and are playing against him it'll just happen. There's no rhyme or reason, it's how the internal logic that we don't have access to works.
Remember when Dean Malenko did the release Tiger Driver and sometimes would do the Cloverleaf afterwards? You can do that. Set the Tiger Driver and say, 70% chance of a pin afterwards, then set 100% Cloverleaf as the next priority. 70% of the time he'll go for the cover. 30% he'll go for the Cloverleaf.
Want a heel to do a heel move, then beg off? You can do that.
There's a lot of really cool possibilities here that simply don't exist in the 2K games.
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Post by ligerbear on Jun 8, 2020 19:20:47 GMT
the smackdown games are flash over substance. though in recent recent years they have become more enjoyable. on the rare occasion i want the full shebang of graphics and presentation for a legend or someone than i will play smackdown. otherwise its all fire pro. last smackdown i got was 2019 and ive played it for 4 hours on 2016 i spent 24 hours. on fire pro world ive spent 380 something. if it wasnt on pc im confident it would be hundreds more since i dont really play pc games. ive easily spent thousands of hours on this series as a whole. no it isnt for everyone. its really deep though if you are into gritty gameplay and customization features. the learning curve is steep though. however that curve is way more accessible though these days with all the youtube vids and guides available
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Post by wakigatame on Jun 8, 2020 21:25:09 GMT
the smackdown games are flash over substance. though in recent recent years they have become more enjoyable. on the rare occasion i want the full shebang of graphics and presentation for a legend or someone than i will play smackdown. otherwise its all fire pro. last smackdown i got was 2019 and ive played it for 4 hours on 2016 i spent 24 hours. on fire pro world ive spent 380 something. if it wasnt on pc im confident it would be hundreds more since i dont really play pc games. ive easily spent thousands of hours on this series as a whole. no it isnt for everyone. its really deep though if you are into gritty gameplay and customization features. the learning curve is steep though. however that curve is way more accessible though these days with all the youtube vids and guides available Had no idea there was a SmackDown 2019. That's wild. |
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Post by spencer24 on Jun 8, 2020 22:04:40 GMT
The trend I seem to pick up in your posts is that you feel like you are supposed to like Fire Pro more than you do. And I hope you can, but it is also okay if it isn't for you.
While the lockups may be determined by RNG pretty much everything else is based on logic. I've never made an edit myself and probably never will. There are some insanely talented and committed creators that for me make this the ultimate game. Much like you said, I enjoy being able to have access to basically every wrestler ever. With basically infinite rosters the game for me feels like it will almost never get old.
I've been running my personal sim fed for probably five or more years at this point. I started it using Fire Pro Returns and eventually moved over to World. I love it as much or more as when I first began. And I haven't even ventured into the world of mods yet. I am waiting until support for World is finished and then I will toy with the mods. I gladly buy every DLC because I feel like I can play this game forever (okay maybe not forever).
My primary advice would be to determine what it is you want out of a wrestling game. Someone else mentioned TEW (Total Extreme Warfare) and I think you should definitely check that out as well. Remember, you can play all the games if you want depending on your mood. You do you. I hope you find the thing you're looking for!
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Post by JimSportsRadio on Jun 8, 2020 22:11:41 GMT
The trend I seem to pick up in your posts is that you feel like you are supposed to like Fire Pro more than you do. And I hope you can, but it is also okay if it isn't for you. While the lockups may be determined by RNG pretty much everything else is based on logic. I've never made an edit myself and probably never will. There are some insanely talented and committed creators that for me make this the ultimate game. Much like you said, I enjoy being able to have access to basically every wrestler ever. With basically infinite rosters the game for me feels like it will almost never get old. I've been running my personal sim fed for probably five or more years at this point. I started it using Fire Pro Returns and eventually moved over to World. I love it as much or more as when I first began. And I haven't even ventured into the world of mods yet. I am waiting until support for World is finished and then I will toy with the mods. I gladly buy every DLC because I feel like I can play this game forever (okay maybe not forever). My primary advice would be to determine what it is you want out of a wrestling game. Someone else mentioned TEW (Total Extreme Warfare) and I think you should definitely check that out as well. Remember, you can play all the games if you want depending on your mood. You do you. I hope you find the thing you're looking for! You make some very valid points when it comes to me trying to find a way to love it. That is what I want to do. I feel maybe if I take the time to study what I can do in the game more I will love it. I usually just use people edits like I find Avengers to be really good it seems I just like having some sort of say. Like for example in wwe2k19 I create some jobbers. They rank around 36 overall and they will never win. So if I want to recreate say a Goldberg streak I can as he will dominate those matches fast. In Fire pro I have seen jobber types beat main guys. So that sticks with me. I really need to dig deep into learning all the game can offer. |
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Post by spencer24 on Jun 8, 2020 22:44:35 GMT
The trend I seem to pick up in your posts is that you feel like you are supposed to like Fire Pro more than you do. And I hope you can, but it is also okay if it isn't for you. While the lockups may be determined by RNG pretty much everything else is based on logic. I've never made an edit myself and probably never will. There are some insanely talented and committed creators that for me make this the ultimate game. Much like you said, I enjoy being able to have access to basically every wrestler ever. With basically infinite rosters the game for me feels like it will almost never get old. I've been running my personal sim fed for probably five or more years at this point. I started it using Fire Pro Returns and eventually moved over to World. I love it as much or more as when I first began. And I haven't even ventured into the world of mods yet. I am waiting until support for World is finished and then I will toy with the mods. I gladly buy every DLC because I feel like I can play this game forever (okay maybe not forever). My primary advice would be to determine what it is you want out of a wrestling game. Someone else mentioned TEW (Total Extreme Warfare) and I think you should definitely check that out as well. Remember, you can play all the games if you want depending on your mood. You do you. I hope you find the thing you're looking for! You make some very valid points when it comes to me trying to find a way to love it. That is what I want to do. I feel maybe if I take the time to study what I can do in the game more I will love it. I usually just use people edits like I find Avengers to be really good it seems I just like having some sort of say. Like for example in wwe2k19 I create some jobbers. They rank around 36 overall and they will never win. So if I want to recreate say a Goldberg streak I can as he will dominate those matches fast. In Fire pro I have seen jobber types beat main guys. So that sticks with me. I really need to dig deep into learning all the game can offer. I'm the opposite. I want almost no say in it. I like to sit back and watch what happens and the narrative sort of writes itself. If you are looking for a sports entertainment style feel then Fire Pro may not quite fit your style. If you want to understand the Fire Pro match style then perhaps consider checking out some Japanese wrestling. The style of matches in Fire Pro is much more based on that style. Keep an open mind on the things you can't control. Jobber beat a top guy? Have fun seeing how he fares against other top guys and watch his rise or failure at keeping the momentum. If you are looking to do more WWE Style booking than the WWE games might make more sense for that, their Universe mode and whatnot. |
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Jun 8, 2020 23:28:02 GMT
If you're looking for "having a say" in the results of matches, you're likely always going to be disappointed- its not the point of the Fire Pro setup. There are ways to make jobbers for sure, but Fire Pro is based off Japanese wrestling, which doesn't do the traditional "jobber" role. Fire Pro will always give both guys a shot at winning in a given match. If you're not feeling that, then yeah it might be time to look elsewhere.
All that said, if you're playing on PC you can use mods to book winners. So there's that option too...
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Post by Senator Phillips on Jun 8, 2020 23:44:51 GMT
If you're looking for "having a say" in the results of matches, you're likely always going to be disappointed- its not the point of the Fire Pro setup. There are ways to make jobbers for sure, but Fire Pro is based off Japanese wrestling, which doesn't do the traditional "jobber" role. Fire Pro will always give both guys a shot at winning in a given match. If you're not feeling that, then yeah it might be time to look elsewhere. All that said, if you're playing on PC you can use mods to book winners. So there's that option too... I mean, you *can* make jobbers, but you do have to go well out of your way to do so. You can just take away all avenues to winning and lower defense, but they'll still take a while to lose. To make them lose faster, there's some things that can be done, like giving them a fight style that forces them to gas out faster, have them attempt moves early in the match that are more likely to be countered and reduce access to moves that knock down the opponent. |
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