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Post by IamAres on Sept 17, 2018 6:13:39 GMT
I voted "any time" because it absolutely, 100 percent depends on the situation, the wrestler involved, and whether it makes sense in that context. I've seen even 90's AJPW guys - the poster guys of "build up to your big shit" - hit a surprise HUGE move near the beginning of the match because their opponent was in the perfect situation for it; then that itself becomes the story, the opponent trying to come back from the shock of getting hit that hard that early.
Obviously, in FPW, you don't want that to happen super often, or it's not gonna feel like that - it's gonna feel like your guy doesn't know how to work. But just because it CAN happen doesn't make it automatically a bad thing. It all depends on the context.
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Post by otaku2255 on Sept 17, 2018 6:29:12 GMT
If this was a poll purely about finishers, it'd have to be 10+. But signatures don't necessarily mean big, match-ending moves. I have the Hip Dance as a sig for my Alex Wright edit. Likewise for Rick Rude (and maybe Curry Man, I have to go check). I have to echo the sentiment of Carl and Spunk about it being match and wrestler dependent. Hell, even two of Triple H's signatures (the high knee and knee drop) can happen quite early and often.
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Post by OrochiGeese on Sept 17, 2018 6:54:29 GMT
The best part is that Geese Walker did 5 minute Cross-Arm PB's in the last two sims I saw  Oh Geese. Always the same problem. That's gotta be frustrating. What's especially frustrating is that the Cross-Arm PB is 1-2% maximum so it coming out at 5 minutes is UGH. Even with Geese getting some opponents to "Near Death" too early in the match, the move still shouldn't have come out that early. And by "that early" I mean it being the first O move that Geese did! That whole "7 minute Ganso" thing is so annoying because it's not just the move coming out early relative to the entire the match, it's the move being the first "O" move that comes out in that category!! I reluctantly accepted that when it was the 6% Ganso move for 2008 era Geese. But seeing a 2% move do that same thing multiple times is kinda demoralizing. I mean, I know "RNG" and all but when I'm trying to make big changes in the edit and seeing that kinda stuff, I just kinda shrug. Anyway - since I haven't followed up for a few months - I made a lot of the changes you recommended back in July and I have seen significant improvement in many areas but still getting some "specials" inconsistency (in regards to when they come out relative to each other and to the match) so I haven't posted the updated version yet. When I'm a little closer to being happy with him, I'll post more about him in that thread. I don't want to derail this one but since I mentioned it and you picked up on it, I just wanted to update you :) |
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Post by mbxfilms on Sept 17, 2018 12:31:14 GMT
Apparently, taunts marked as signatures recover spirit. So, that's another way to utilize the signature flag. Sometimes I really wonder if I will ever know all the functions of this game..... |
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Post by pfadrian on Sept 17, 2018 14:37:18 GMT
7-10 minutes feels too soon. I don’f want to see a finisher used more than twice.
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Post by pfadrian on Sept 17, 2018 14:38:49 GMT
Maybe the question should change to Finishers only? Signatures are used broadly from wrestler to wrestler
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Post by view619 on Sept 17, 2018 15:06:12 GMT
Apparently, taunts marked as signatures recover spirit. So, that's another way to utilize the signature flag. Sometimes I really wonder if I will ever know all the functions of this game..... If that's surprising, then you should know that taunts marked as finishers recover five times as much spirit as those marked as signature. And there's no limit on how often you can trigger tge spirit recovery. After learning about it I gave my Hogan, Ultimate Warrior and Flair edits at least one signature taunt (two for Hogan, as I included the test of strength taunt). Being able to set up characters to actually feed off the crowd's energy is nice, and the ratings bump doesn't hurt either. |
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Post by Zealot on Sept 17, 2018 15:27:56 GMT
This is all good information and I appreciate everyone's input so far.
To further clarify, I have redone the poll so that it specifically states moves that are logically set to END a match since S and F set moves vary depending on the edit. I didn't even think about how it could affect stuff like health and spirit meters.
I will still stick by my original opinion of 7-10 minutes for moves designed to end a match.
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Post by pfadrian on Sept 17, 2018 16:18:44 GMT
In that case, I’d only want to see a finishing or ending move attempted under 10 min if it’s designed to kick out. I could see some characters wanting a quick win (whether because they lack stamina or fear they might lose if the match extends). But I design my cards on matches I want to see, and under 10 just doesn’t cut it for me.
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Post by Severla on Sept 17, 2018 16:21:16 GMT
I retained 10m as a majority answer, personally.
A finisher at 7m may be a nice flash (or painful RNG, per who you ask), but I dont want that consistently, if I can help it.
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Post by Zealot on Sept 17, 2018 16:29:51 GMT
The only reason I included 7 in my opinion is due to both hoss edits being hoss edits and also to account for quick junior matches. Otherwise, yeah. 10+ is perfectly acceptable I would think. Especially if it's a significant match like a main event or title match.
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Post by OrochiGeese on Sept 17, 2018 19:39:39 GMT
Sometimes I really wonder if I will ever know all the functions of this game..... If that's surprising, then you should know that taunts marked as finishers recover five times as much spirit as those marked as signature. And there's no limit on how often you can trigger tge spirit recovery. After learning about it I gave my Hogan, Ultimate Warrior and Flair edits at least one signature taunt (two for Hogan, as I included the test of strength taunt). Being able to set up characters to actually feed off the crowd's energy is nice, and the ratings bump doesn't hurt either. Wow - I had no idea that so much spirit was recovered by marking a taunt as a special or finisher. I figured that having a taunt as a special could maybe have some kind of bonus if paired with "Stardom" special skill but I didn't realize that it could actually recover spirit. I already thought of a cool idea. Imagine Gill (plus/minus loin cloth) from SF3 and the "regeneration" super he'd do if he had a full Super meter before being defeated for a round. Having an FPW edit with a taunt as a Finisher and sequencing it into itself could be an effective strategy for a defensive tank or "regeneration" style edit. You could sequence INTO that sequence too from another taunt or move (like the strike exchange clincher). Definitely a lot of interesting things can be done with this knowledge: even if you just use the taunt as a special and not a finisher. Could a finisher taunt act as an effective enough "shield" for a wrestler to withstand a finisher submission? We'd need to know what specific move is being used as a finisher here (to know the spirit damage of the move) but is it at least possible that the finisher taunt could shield an edit from some submission finishers? So as an example: Let's say Wrestler A has 0 spirit and Wrestler B is about to do their own finisher submission which would definitely cause Wrestler A to submit. If Wrestler A did a finisher taunt right before B's finisher, could the finisher taunt recover enough spirit to allow them to kick out of the finisher? |
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Post by view619 on Sept 17, 2018 19:57:22 GMT
It's about 1k spirit recovered on finisher taunts, out of a total of about 65k spirit if I recall correctly, so it's not a massive amount by itself. But, if you had it set to a high performance value or set it to trigger after multiple attacks throughout the course of a match it could make a huge difference.
If an edit taunted right before a big move into a pin, it might give him enough of a boost to kick out. You probably want to test that for verification, though.
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Post by OrochiGeese on Sept 17, 2018 20:09:57 GMT
It's about 1k spirit recovered on finisher taunts, out of a total of about 65k spirit if I recall correctly, so it's not a massive amount by itself. But, if you had it set to a high performance value or set it to trigger after multiple attacks throughout the course of a match it could make a huge difference. Thanks for reminding me about the total spirit amount too as I always forget that (and the total HP level). Yeah, 1K out of 65K isn't that much but if you looped it like 3-5 times it could be substantial. If an edit taunted right before a big move into a pin, it might give him enough of a boost to kick out. You probably want to test that for verification, though. I just kind of realized something that may have undermined my question. Does labeling a move a finisher (or special) even enhance the amount of spirit damage that it does? I know that Special/Finisher status buffs the damage of the parameters (+1/+2) but does it also enhance the amount of damage to spirit? |
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Post by view619 on Sept 17, 2018 21:00:48 GMT
Increased parameters affect the final spirit and hp damage calculation, so setting moves as signature or finisher will increase the spirit damage done.
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