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Post by adwhizz on Jul 24, 2018 18:06:40 GMT
Ahoy all,
So I understand that touchwork controls how often an edit tags out during a match, but none of the guides I read specified if making the number higher or lower controls how often they tag.
Also is that based on the amount of damage the edit takes before tagging or just their overall amount of time spent in the ring.
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Post by IamAres on Jul 24, 2018 18:15:28 GMT
Higher = more frequent tags.
As far as I know, the amount of damage they've taken.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 21:50:35 GMT
I've been thinking that I should have all the normal wrestlers at low cooperation and touchwork, like maybe 50% max, and have the higher percentages only for the known tag teams. That way the tag titles would (presumably) gravitate towards the dedicated teams since they'd have an edge.
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Post by OrochiGeese on Jul 26, 2018 4:09:49 GMT
I've been thinking that I should have all the normal wrestlers at low cooperation and touchwork, like maybe 50% max, and have the higher percentages only for the known tag teams. That way the tag titles would (presumably) gravitate towards the dedicated teams since they'd have an edge. Yeah, I think it's a good idea to have that contrast between career singles and tag wrestlers. Higher touchwork also means more tags and a higher chance at tag team moves so that can further highlight the difference in skill levels. Some edits may not be in a specific tag team but could have career experience as tag wrestlers. Imagine like an Arn Anderson or Bobby Eaton who would be able to work better with a random partner than most other wrestlers not in a tag team (and many that are in a tag team). You may want to go higher than 50% max though for the normal wrestlers. Touchwork under 70% can result in very few tags, especially late in the match when a wrestler really should tag out. You practically end up with 2 on 2 matches rather than tag matches. I think tag wrestlers should be given at least 85% (the more experienced, talented, and comfortable with their tag partners, the higher they should get) and singles wrestlers could probably be in the 65-85% range. Someone like HHH hasn't wrestled in a tag team in a while but is smart enough to be able to feel out their partner and adapt to the match. But i wouldn't give him higher than a wrestler in a dedicated tag team or a wrestler who has made their career in tag teams. Again though, those are just ranges. Test and see what works best for what you want in the matches. I've had a lot of success recently with edits I've made specifically for tag teams. I have singles versions and tag versions of every edit that is in a tag team. The tag versions have high R Trigger % and high touchwork. They also have priority tag specials -> pins. I actually saw a tag special priority (STO/Backdrop) hit last night to almost finish a match (the next special won it) and marked out really hard. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 5:06:41 GMT
I've been thinking that I should have all the normal wrestlers at low cooperation and touchwork, like maybe 50% max, and have the higher percentages only for the known tag teams. That way the tag titles would (presumably) gravitate towards the dedicated teams since they'd have an edge. Yeah, I think it's a good idea to have that contrast between career singles and tag wrestlers. Higher touchwork also means more tags and a higher chance at tag team moves so that can further highlight the difference in skill levels. Some edits may not be in a specific tag team but could have career experience as tag wrestlers. Imagine like an Arn Anderson or Bobby Eaton who would be able to work better with a random partner than most other wrestlers not in a tag team (and many that are in a tag team). You may want to go higher than 50% max though for the normal wrestlers. Touchwork under 70% can result in very few tags, especially late in the match when a wrestler really should tag out. You practically end up with 2 on 2 matches rather than tag matches. I think tag wrestlers should be given at least 85% (the more experienced, talented, and comfortable with their tag partners, the higher they should get) and singles wrestlers could probably be in the 65-85% range. Someone like HHH hasn't wrestled in a tag team in a while but is smart enough to be able to feel out their partner and adapt to the match. But i wouldn't give him higher than a wrestler in a dedicated tag team or a wrestler who has made their career in tag teams. Again though, those are just ranges. Test and see what works best for what you want in the matches. I've had a lot of success recently with edits I've made specifically for tag teams. I have singles versions and tag versions of every edit that is in a tag team. The tag versions have high R Trigger % and high touchwork. They also have priority tag specials -> pins. I actually saw a tag special priority (STO/Backdrop) hit last night to almost finish a match (the next special won it) and marked out really hard. Great info! I always felt like you'd need super high cooperation to give the edits a chance of hitting their tag special finisher. I noticed that the Doomsday Device is a double-corner-grapple move now (I don't remember it being in Fire Pro Returns though it may have been), but it seems like a small chance. In the future we might be able to specify whether they hammer throw the opponent into the ropes or into the corner. That would actually make the logic much easier to do. Including the headlock-walk at a high percentage is a great idea too. I'm just starting to explore all the spots and mark-out potential that the 9 priority slots and new linking options have now. Like for example, I gave Earthquake the powerslam -> stomping taunt -> Earthquake splash combo and it makes me mark out every time. And with the new cap on body part size I can make him as massive as in Wrestlefest. Definitely will experiment more. BTW I've seen your SN before, I think you're a long-time Fire Pro guy online, right? |
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thelodger
JIM MINY
Building an efed
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Post by thelodger on Jul 26, 2018 5:16:59 GMT
I can't wait for my slow ass laptop to load this game so I can try this on my tags. My entire efed is about to get an overhaul.
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Post by jetlag on Jul 26, 2018 5:25:54 GMT
Something I've heard: for tag teams, it can sometimes make sense to give one guy low cooperation (50%) to simulate him taking a beating before making a hot tag. In short, set cooperation low if you want the guy to play Ricky Morton.
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Post by OrochiGeese on Jul 26, 2018 7:11:11 GMT
Something I've heard: for tag teams, it can sometimes make sense to give one guy low cooperation (50%) to simulate him taking a beating before making a hot tag. In short, set cooperation low if you want the guy to play Ricky Morton. I don't know if it's changed from FPR but I think 50% touchwork would lead to very few tags later on. I really do love the overall idea though of having one guy with higher touchwork and one guy with lower touchwork but I don't think FPW allows us that much variance in an "acceptable range" where we're still seeing tags. Admittedly, I'm still using high values in FPW that were ported over from my FPR edits so maybe 50% touchwork in FPW allows more tags (especially late in the match) than 50% touchwork did in FPR. Anything below 80% in FPR and you would barely see tags after the 20 minute mark of a relatively even match. Great info! I always felt like you'd need super high cooperation to give the edits a chance of hitting their tag special finisher. I noticed that the Doomsday Device is a double-corner-grapple move now (I don't remember it being in Fire Pro Returns though it may have been), but it seems like a small chance. I think you can do Doomsday Devices from the double-corner-grapple move and ALSO from the scenario where one edit back-grapples the opponent, uses Up and R Trigger (to put them on their shoulder) and then the other edit (the non-legal one on the apron) climbs the top rope. Including the headlock-walk at a high percentage is a great idea too. I'm just starting to explore all the spots and mark-out potential that the 9 priority slots and new linking options have now. Having high R trigger allows one team to "cut off the ring" and gives a much better chance at team moves AND the likelihood that any pins/submissions happen in their side of the ring. BTW I've seen your SN before, I think you're a long-time Fire Pro guy online, right? Yeah!  |
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Post by otaku2255 on Jul 26, 2018 16:41:27 GMT
Long-time Fire Pro guys 4 lyfe.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 18:44:11 GMT
Something I've heard: for tag teams, it can sometimes make sense to give one guy low cooperation (50%) to simulate him taking a beating before making a hot tag. In short, set cooperation low if you want the guy to play Ricky Morton. I don't know if it's changed from FPR but I think 50% touchwork would lead to very few tags later on. I really do love the overall idea though of having one guy with higher touchwork and one guy with lower touchwork but I don't think FPW allows us that much variance in an "acceptable range" where we're still seeing tags. Admittedly, I'm still using high values in FPW that were ported over from my FPR edits so maybe 50% touchwork in FPW allows more tags (especially late in the match) than 50% touchwork did in FPR. Anything below 80% in FPR and you would barely see tags after the 20 minute mark of a relatively even match. Great info! I always felt like you'd need super high cooperation to give the edits a chance of hitting their tag special finisher. I noticed that the Doomsday Device is a double-corner-grapple move now (I don't remember it being in Fire Pro Returns though it may have been), but it seems like a small chance. I think you can do Doomsday Devices from the double-corner-grapple move and ALSO from the scenario where one edit back-grapples the opponent, uses Up and R Trigger (to put them on their shoulder) and then the other edit (the non-legal one on the apron) climbs the top rope. Including the headlock-walk at a high percentage is a great idea too. I'm just starting to explore all the spots and mark-out potential that the 9 priority slots and new linking options have now. Having high R trigger allows one team to "cut off the ring" and gives a much better chance at team moves AND the likelihood that any pins/submissions happen in their side of the ring. BTW I've seen your SN before, I think you're a long-time Fire Pro guy online, right? Yeah! I think I'm going to try going with touchwork at 70% max, so it's not a total handicap match, but lower cooperation, and see how that works out. Looking forward to seeing more dragging the opponent into their corner too. BTW, I've posted on most of the fire pro sites that have been around over the years, I think most commonly on FireProClub (my name usually is EGarrett), which had a board and has since disappeared. I always remember you, Jason Blackhart, and a few other people always being around supporting the communities and providing great info. |
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Post by OrochiGeese on Jul 27, 2018 5:48:31 GMT
I think I'm going to try going with touchwork at 70% max, so it's not a total handicap match, but lower cooperation, and see how that works out. Looking forward to seeing more dragging the opponent into their corner too. You can give 70% a try and see how it is. My hunch is that you'll probably want to bump it up to 75% for these types of wrestlers but it's just a hunch. You'll want to sim a number of times to see how it goes. Increasing R Trigger (especially in medium and large damage front grapple categories) will really help the match feel more like a tag match in so many ways. You can probably use the 7-10% range for medium and large damage and then adjust from there depending on the logic % of your other moves in those categories. A few other ideas I think I forgot to mention that you asked about in a prior post: - A high "Personal Traits" percentage will mean that your edit will irish whip the opponent into the corner more than they will irish whip them to the ropes. That should help with tag team moves. - A high "Discretion" percentage (I believe over 70%) will allow your edit to use the R Trigger headlock to drag the opponent to your corner in tag matches rather than to the center of the ring. (High discretion will drag the opponent toward the center of the ring in singles matches). BTW, I've posted on most of the fire pro sites that have been around over the years, I think most commonly on FireProClub (my name usually is EGarrett), which had a board and has since disappeared. I always remember you, Jason Blackhart, and a few other people always being around supporting the communities and providing great info. Thanks!! I do remember your name, I think maybe from the old FireProClub. Very glad that you are back in the community! :) |
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Post by DakkoN on Jul 27, 2018 8:31:12 GMT
I think I'm going to try going with touchwork at 70% max, so it's not a total handicap match, but lower cooperation, and see how that works out. Looking forward to seeing more dragging the opponent into their corner too. You can give 70% a try and see how it is. My hunch is that you'll probably want to bump it up to 75% for these types of wrestlers but it's just a hunch. You'll want to sim a number of times to see how it goes. Increasing R Trigger (especially in medium and large damage front grapple categories) will really help the match feel more like a tag match in so many ways. You can probably use the 7-10% range for medium and large damage and then adjust from there depending on the logic % of your other moves in those categories. A few other ideas I think I forgot to mention that you asked about in a prior post: - A high "Personal Traits" percentage will mean that your edit will irish whip the opponent into the corner more than they will irish whip them to the ropes. That should help with tag team moves. - A high "Discretion" percentage (I believe over 70%) will allow your edit to use the R Trigger headlock to drag the opponent to your corner in tag matches rather than to the center of the ring. (High discretion will drag the opponent toward the center of the ring in singles matches). BTW, I've posted on most of the fire pro sites that have been around over the years, I think most commonly on FireProClub (my name usually is EGarrett), which had a board and has since disappeared. I always remember you, Jason Blackhart, and a few other people always being around supporting the communities and providing great info. Thanks!! I do remember your name, I think maybe from the old FireProClub. Very glad that you are back in the community! :) Bolded was changed in this game I believe. On the old forum, Carl posted that dragging in tag matches now uses Cooperation instead of discretion. SHOWMANSHIP How often you whip to turnbuckle instead of ropes. High: Will whip to corner more often. Low: Will whip to ropes more often. How much damage opp has to take before attempting to throw out of ring High: apron moves with mods DISCRETION How often an edit stops to catch their breath. Low: Put opp in tree of woe more often. High: No tree of woe. 100 will never use tree of woe. High: Drag to center of ring, Low: Drag to corner. (NOT IN TAG MATCHES. USES COOPERATION INSTEAD) Discretion 66+: drag towards center Discretion below 66 but above 30: drag to corner Discretion below 30: break facelock FLEXIBILITY How often you go for Cage escapes. High: Won't try to irish whip non-wrestlers, will instead do front facelock. Low: Will try to irish whip non-wrestlers and fail. COOPERATION 33+: drag towards corner. How often an edit will enter the ring to help a team mate How often an edit will engage in double team moves when an edit is holding the opponent from behind or on their shoulders or front facelock. TOUCHWORK Threshold of damage/spirit damage before a tag is considered by the AI High: Less damage before you tag out. Low: More damage needed to be taken before tag out. |
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Post by Love Wilcox on Jul 27, 2018 14:51:52 GMT
Bare in mind a cowardly heel type may be inclined to tag often whether he’s a tag specialist or not :)
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Post by adwhizz on Jul 27, 2018 15:49:57 GMT
Ha, glad to see this topic blew up since I last checked
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Post by eggie25 on Jul 28, 2018 14:11:00 GMT
For cooperation/touchwork I use 80/85 for singles, 100/95 for actual teams, 60/100 for managers (Heenan, Hart, etc)
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