Simming at high levels vs submission length

I sim at 4. I honestly don't like the "sliding to the ropes" animation in the higher levels, and the struggle of edits to break out of a hold.

I always play at Level 4 because I really like the length of submissions at that level. 

There's something cool to me about seeing a wrestler hold out until the 4th or 5th "crank" of the move and then submit. Submissions go a little too quickly for that at the higher CPU levels.

I think Level 4 has a good balance of submission length, tests of strength, and the time window between the collar and elbow tie-up and the grapple win. That last one could be a bit quicker but I live with it.  

For some moves, I like watching the CPU attempt to crawl to the ropes at the higher levels.  But for other moves it just doesn't look natural to me.  So I don't mind giving up that feature on the higher levels. 

Very well said, I totally feel the same way 👏

I also really like your idea of the ref simulating the "raising victim's hand twice" then calling for the bell. That is a clever and cool old school way to treat the level 9 submission check 😎

The difference with submissions is that the referee allows them to last longer on the lower levels.

So that would be true all the way from Level 1 vs. Level 10. 

The question is really how many "checks" you want the referee doing before breaking them up. And that really just comes down to a question of personal preference + how you build your edits. 

You won't see as many submission victories on Level 10 because the ref only provides a few checks before the submissions stop.  Conversely, a submission can last a long time on Level 1 since the ref will perform many more checks until finally breaking the submission up.  I don't really remember how many "checks" per level though. Level 1 has the ref basically take out a beach chair and take in the sun during a hold.

I preferred Level 4 with FPR so I haven't really looked at Level 5 or Level 6.  I can say with 100% certainty that there's no rope crawling on Level 4 but I don't know for sure when it starts. 

I remember trying Level 7 with FPW and initially liking it until I realized two things.

1) The ref broke submissions up too early for my own preference & roster with a lot of submission edits.

2) The animation of wrestlers trying to crawl to the ropes just didn't look right to me for a lot of submission holds: specifically the ones where there's no possible way they'd be able to move their body to crawl. But even submission moves where a wrestler could feasibly move looked like they were "sliding" or "gliding" to me across the mat.  Submission escapes were an excellent addition to the Fire Pro series in theory but the execution just didn't feel right to me. I'm a pro at suspending disbelief with Fire Pro over the years and seeing in game action as "simulating" stuff which my imagination fills in. But we all kind of have our own personal limits with that and visual pet peeves. Watching "Fire Pro on Ice" was too much for me 😁⛸

But the best thing to do would be for you to check out the different levels, see if you are okay with the submission escapes, and see how long you want the referees checking submissions for. There's no right answer here. "Match quality" would be subjective which is why you should try different levels.

But I would say that "Match length" is definitely affected by the levels. It's just affected inconsistently. On one hand, wrestlers crawling to the ropes would mean that submissions could be broken up quicker. On the other hand, submissions are already broken up quicker on the higher levels so they may not even get to the ropes.  Since submissions are broken up quicker, you get more of a chance for other moves (like quicker duration pins or impact slams) to occur but you also get less of a chance for submissions ending matches earlier. 

Some edits will be able to finish matches quicker on the higher levels if they have more flash pins.  Other edits that rely on submissions will take longer to finish matches on the higher levels since they won't have time to do as much damage since the moves are broken up sooner and because there's a chance that the defender gets to the ropes.  Whatever the reason, less submissions cranks mean less HP and spirit damage per submission.  It also favors edits who use other types of moves to win matches.

Like a lot in Fire Pro, there isn't really a perfect answer but rather the best answer for what you personally want to see, how your edits perform, and what just feels and looks right to you.  I'm not so attached to Level 4 that I wouldn't try a higher level - especially if I felt it benefitted a certain style of match or edit. 

I avoid levels below 4 because there's too much delay in between the collar/elbow tie-up and the grapple win.  This may not be an issue for those who use the mod that bypasses the collar/elbow tie-up. I'm not sure.  But it's definitely an issue in the default game as it looks like the wrestlers fell asleep in the tie-up 😁

In short: 

Higher levels:  Low-friction surfaces for submission escapes that could make a physics expert blush. Aggressive refs with little tolerance for submissions and a ton of Tests of Strength 💪

Lower levels: Collar and Elbow Tie-up Siestas 😴 and refs writing their memoirs during submissions.