Logically speaking (Whats the Logic behind yur Logic, Logic)

Preface: I only deal in original/OC edits so your mileage may vary. I will use a more recent technician edit I've been working on as the example for the majority of this post. A majority of this edit's move-set is Flash Pins, Limb Targeting moves, and Submissions. Most of the time she finishes on a Flash Pin.


Most of the time (Read: Almost always) I set Downstate pins early to 20% in both Face Up and Face Down categories. This tapers down to 10% for both categories in Large Damage, *if* the edit isn't utilizing Flash Pins (La Magistral, School Boy, etc.). Basic pins are zeroed out entirely in Critical Damage/Near Death. If an edit uses Flash Pins, then I almost always set their Near Death logic to 10%, perhaps more if I deem it necessary. This particular edit uses the Jackknife Pin, Mi Amor de Mi Novia, Iidabashi and La Triangular de Solar - All of these are Flash Pins.




For Front Grapple Finishers, I almost always set them in the 5% range plus/minus 1% or 2% if necessary. Back Grapple Finishers are considerably higher, in the range of 25%+; 30% seems to be about the sweet spot. Some have 100% depending on the edit. Diving Finishers are roughly 20% for Downstate Dives and anywhere between 40% and 100% for Standing Dives, situation depending.


Adding to my previous statement: I usually follow a pattern of 15% Back Switch across the board in Small/Med/Large Damage. I also slot a Brainbuster in the UP + HVY slot to account for Outside Dives. I never deviated away from this, even with the introduction of Move Craft. The Brainbuster is also a visual cue that the match has hit the home stretch of the match. Most of my edits get to Late Match in around 8 minutes; Sometimes slower, sometimes quicker.





Priorities is a whole can of worms in itself. Things can be really basic, such as Finisher -> Pin. If an edit has a Diving Finisher, I always set a priority aside so they can Pin from Face Down.

They can be as complex as Noshigami/Gori Crusher (HVY to Dazed Standing) -> Torbellino A (HVY to Dazed Standing) -> Taunt 1 -> Torbellino B (MED to Downstate) -> Taunt 2 => Kabel Naria OR (in a branching priority) Iidabashi.

You can even go further than that and set up a priority that will start in the ring, force the opponent to the outside, the attacker will wait, the defender returns to the ring, then the attacker continues the sequence. These are more difficult to pull off, but possible.

There's also the Thrust Dropkick -> Springboard Dropkick -> Downstate Dive sequences as well. This one is harder to connect because there's no Daze flag on any of these moves regularly. Pretty sure there've been Daze variations introduced, or I would be surprised if there isn't.

Here's an example of that:



You can do some fancy stuff with the Landing Brainbuster Outside Apron move. Some of my faster, high speed edits use this to set up multi-step Running Priority sequences.

You can also do Taunt loops, which I use depending on the edit. A handful of my edits will "Dance Loop" until the opponent interrupts them or they cut the loop using a Loop ending taunt. IE: My Pumpkin Spice edit will continue to use the Disco Dance until it's interrupted or she uses the TCS Salute Taunt to cut the loop.

As you can probably tell, I use up almost all Priority slots, but, depending on the edit, they won't have any Priority sequences at all. As a challenge, I made an edit ages ago that *only* finished on Flash Pins or Standing Submissions.

If you wanted to get *really* tricky, you could even come up with non-Priority sequences. These are usually done with Mount logic, with some also using Standing Dazed Logic to "priority" Standing Strikes, among other things.

Ah yes, a beautiful mind.

This is an excellent thread that I'm way late to entering 😭


A number of years ago I created a guide for FPR called "Best Tests Around" with the technical help of Jason Blackhart and great strategy contributions from a number of people in the community (including in this thread).

Much of my approach for creating edits is the same as it was there. However, the engine dynamics are different in FPR than FPW in some ways and we also understand more now than we did then. So I would suggest skipping the first half of the guide and going directly to the section called:

"V. How to randomly generate utility out of the RNG."

Everything from that point on discusses my "trends" approach to edit making and testing. I think that may be related to some degree to what Senator and Flaps are saying about using broader numbers.

I also think it's really important not to get too attached to the specific numbers that you originally give an edit when you first make them. An expected "range" is good to work from (like 4-8%). But there's no way of initially knowing if a "6%" finisher will be better than a "7% finisher" when interacting with the other moves in that category without simming the edit over time.  So don't get attached. Go with an educated guess (based on past experience) and be willing to change the values of that move or other moves when necessary. But don't change it after less than 5 sims unless it's clearly out of whack. Chances are a 1% difference won't even be detectable in sims. You'll never know if the move didn't trigger in the next sim because of that 1% change you made between sims or because the move didn't have that high a % to begin with. 

That can drive you crazy.  You see a 6% finisher happen twice in one sim and panic. Then you reduce the move by 1% and don't see it at all in the next sim.  So you're left wondering whether you didn't see it because of the 1% reduction or because it wouldn't have been chosen anyway even if it was still at 6%.  Don't raise it again right after that.   

Strategies for simming that keep you sane have to be part of the creation and testing strategy.


A few other things I can think of now:

Although it takes longer to make FPW edits (due to having more priorities and more that we can do with priorities), my overall strategies are the same as when I wrote the guide. I start an edit by coming up with their overall character and ring style. If I have a character whose history is known to me (often as a result of an established character needing a rival or ally), then that sense of history helps me out as well.

So using some combination of their character, history, and ring style - I figure out their Finisher, specials, and maybe 3-4 other noteworthy moves. Then I cover all of those with Priorities if they need them. At that point I basically just "work backward" and have the rest of the moveset lead to those big moves and priorities.

That doesn't mean that every move has to necessarily "route" directly to their big match ending moves. You can have an edit who is a technical marvel but whose character is kind of a jerk. A punch to the mouth may not lead to their wrist clutch grapevine neck clamp powerbomb, but it can still be an effective tool for expressing who they are in their moveset.

(Side note - I love how every ridiculous indy-sounding exaggerated move that I can think of is now actually possible with Move Craft 😁  )


Most of you guys are pretty familiar with my conventions for edits over the years by hearing me talk about it and seeing it in the DNA of my edits.  ("Wow, what a surprise, Geese has a 25% corner finisher - is 25 like the number of times he's eaten a breakfast biscuit or something? Is he 25 feet tall? 25 miles wide? What's with those numbers! Is he an advanced numerologist? An amateur one? EWW!)   


Skip the first post of this thread and check out the posts after for a lot of my edit advice and strategies. 

ogubl.proboards.com/thread/17/join-ubl

"Tightening up the logics" (in post 3) is especially useful for avoiding those unnecessary weak finishes late in the match that people have mentioned in this thread.



My final advice is this - having an overall approach to edit making is good as is having certain strategies. But it can be fun to go into a new edit with a completely different approach and perspective just to make them unique and your experience making them.   Is it likely i'll start an edit by thinking of their weak front grapple <-->[]  move before I think of their Finisher? No.  But it may lead to a different experience that could be challenging and fun in its own way.  And building an edit a specific way for that edit can make them feel unique.

And taking inspirations from other edit makers is really key to growing as an edit maker and having more fun.  Dawnbreaker's absolute mastery of innovative priorities in FPW really caused me to raise my game as a result and have more fun thinking of how my edits could work beyond some of my old conventions for them.  

Be yourself but be your best self by continuing to imagine and evolve 🚀

You jerks made me turn the game on for the first time in over a year just to make sure I am not giving out incorrect information.

Just a note: I do not use mods.


Super easy question to start off with! I tend to have abso-fucking-lutely no pins whatsoever at large/near death damage. Looking specifically at front grapple and opponent downed situations. When the match is going to end I want to end in a specific way. The finishers and signatures that are supposed to end the encounter will be set to 100% at large damage in the priority attack logic section to follow up with a pin. I keep it simple there. A finisher is going to finish the match. End of statement lol.

Finisher logic is a little bit tricky, but it really kind of depends on where the finisher is in the move list. Front grapple is the most obvious placement, and I tend to not go above 12% for a finisher in front grapple. Most of my edits sit somewhere around 8-10%. I would say this is a great situation to bust out some RNG and see what happens while simming my two oldest edits against each other (Trek Storm vs Rass Rockman).

Match 1: No finishers but one OKITE YABURI! Match ended with a surprise roll up reversal by Rockman at 15:46.
Match 2: No finishers. Match ended with a submission victory by Rockman at 10:05.
Match 3: No finishers. Another submission victory by Rockman at 15:39. Rockman's finisher is a submission, and his character does have some MMA background so I am not upset by these results... yet.
Match 4: Three finishers, all by Trek and two of them right after each other around the 10:00 mark (both got 2.9 counts). Trek won with his finisher at 15:15.
Match 5: One finisher by Trek that finished the match at 11:42.

These random tests might tell me to lower Rockman's mount attacks in the large damage category if anything else. But overall, this is about where I like things to be. I tend to try to keep bouts around the 12:00-15:00 mark. Obviously there will be outliers but things went off as I wanted them to for the most part.

Rockman's finisher is a submission with the opponent on the mat, and as of right now I have it set to 0% across the board. I only want him to go for this after specific moves in a priority logic sequence. The beginning of the sequence is a front grapple move, which is set to 10% in large damage, so in essence I am still following my own rules as if his finisher was a front grapple attack. I'm wanting to go in and mess around with this character now, try some different things, but that is an adventure for another time.


I am in total agreement here. These are all good things. Please continue thinking like this. I follow a lot of this throughout my mind ramblings. I'm just going to paste a screen grab of Trek's front grapple logic and explain my own thinking during this.




Small Damage:
With the exception of the run grapple, two of the highest attacks are ones that keep the opponent standing. Push over is a bit too high looking at it now, I will probably drop that down to 10-12% and distribute the rest of the numbers to the Wrist Punch and Face Raking A. My goal is to have a good majority of the small damage be quick punches and some running attacks.

Medium Damage:
Every edit I make will have one "wear down" hold in their move set, and Trek has a couple. Neck Throw Headlock is one and he has a priority chain from the Flying Mare to the Sleeper Hold (which is a fucking great little combination that I love).

Large Damage:
Trek's finisher is the Axe Guillotine Driver. Reverse Waterwheel Drop, Pendulum Bomb, Bat Hanging Lock, and Reverse Neckbreaker Drop all have a similar setup to his finisher. I did that on purpose because in my mind it brings out some of the mark out moments, like "OMG HERE COMES THE FINISH!!" but instead the opponent fights out so he switches over to a different move. I dunno, just what I thought was fun as I was building. Both the Pendulum Bomb and Reverse Neckbreaker Drop have a priority follow up to a top rope move that is also supposed to be a match ender. Trek ends up too winded to follow through most of the time. When it happens it's pretty cool though ^_^

Obviously this is going to vary depending on the opponent, but for me this setup results in matches feeling like this:
0:00 to 4:00 - The "feeling out" phase. Mostly punches, test of strengths, a good amount of circling and weak strikes. Running attacks end up being mostly things like running elbows, shoulder blocks, nothing that will really have the attacker leaving their feet.
4:00 to 10:00 - The "wear down" phase. This is where most of the wear down holds happen. If the edit is a character like Rockman who has an arm submission finisher this is where those wear down holds all focus on the arms. This is also where I will have the pin percentage set to around 20-30%. If there are going to be random pins I don't want them to end the match, and unless there is a HUGE power disparity that will not happen in this portion of the match. This is also where I may have a big-ish move set with a pin priority, like say a piledriver. I don't care if it gets a 1, 2, or a 2.9 count, go for the pin after something big in this section just to show the crowd that you are at least trying to win.
10:00 to end - The "just end it" phase. Sometimes Fire Pro is Fire Pro and matches can go on for too long, but I like them to end at some point. So, yeah... end it.


I believe there is wiggle room to this statement. I will be in agreement if you amended it to only at large damage/near death, but having the random submission and pin at small or medium is fine.

I want to dive more into this theory-aspect as I like to think my brain is full of useful knowledge on the game, just not more current knowledge. I would feel lost trying to tackle the move editor, but I spent the better part of 20 years fiddling around with the CPU logic from FPA through the present day, so I hope I retained a good amount of stuff.