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Post by amsterDAN on Oct 18, 2019 20:41:26 GMT
I don't have a problem demeaning entitled people who are just whining and not contributing anything other than "UHH NOT WORTH $20". Like, wow, what a remarkable insight. They deserve to be shamed. The less of that, the better. Who in this thread has been talking like that? Who in this thread has said "UHH NOT WORTH $20" and left it simply at that with no further explanation? If people have been doing that and you feel so strongly that they deserve to be shamed, then come on now, put your money where your mouth is and start shaming them. Go ahead and tag the people acting in the way you've described in your next post. Because from where I'm standing it sure looks like you're just concocting fictitious quotes from people that don't actually exist to try and bolster your argument. Throughout this thread you've posted these nonsensical fake quotes where people who don't like the price apparently are cavemen who type in block caps. Show us these cro-magnons you're quoting. |
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Post by dnmt on Oct 18, 2019 20:51:06 GMT
I am not going to continue the argument because I don't want the thread to get locked. However, I said I was mostly referring to the replies on Twitter and to the general notion of people complaining, not specific individuals as I don't want to turn this into a barrage of personal attacks, but rather an argument about the validity of a tiny, niche game company charging or even over-charging for content and whether or not the content deserves our money on the principle of who is producing it in the first place.
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Oct 18, 2019 21:04:41 GMT
----Side note, whoever it was that pays 20 bucks for a value meal, I feel bad for you, im assuming cali or a major city lol. Here in the mid-west it's about 8-9 dollars. Hell even the good burger joints only run about 12. I live in the Bay Area and 20 bucks for a value meal is about as absurd a price as this new DLC amirite?  |
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Post by Spunk on Oct 18, 2019 21:32:10 GMT
I don't have a problem demeaning entitled people who are just whining and not contributing anything other than "UHH NOT WORTH $20". Like, wow, what a remarkable insight. They deserve to be shamed. The less of that, the better. Who in this thread has been talking like that? Who in this thread has said "UHH NOT WORTH $20" and left it simply at that with no further explanation? If people have been doing that and you feel so strongly that they deserve to be shamed, then come on now, put your money where your mouth is and start shaming them. Go ahead and tag the people acting in the way you've described in your next post. Because from where I'm standing it sure looks like you're just concocting fictitious quotes from people that don't actually exist to try and bolster your argument. Throughout this thread you've posted these nonsensical fake quotes where people who don't like the price apparently are cavemen who type in block caps. Show us these cro-magnons you're quoting. Nobody is. He's constructing arguments built on the backs of straw men or random complaints via Twitter and conflating them with people supplying valid criticisms of this pricing strategy. Some people can't be wrong and feel so self-righteous that the blinders of cognitive dissonance occlude everything but their narrow view of the world. It's a pessimistic way for someone to justify their own behavior and nihilistic views of humanity and society. This poster seems to genuinely believe that people who disagree with their assertion deserve to be *publicly shamed* for not seeing the value in a certain price point for downloadable content. And of course now he's the victim. Yawn. I love supporting Fire Pro, I'll always love supporting Fire Pro, but that means pointing out that the Stardom DLC and now this arena DLC are probably priced about 2x what they should be and that the more of this expensive DLC they release the more they fracture the community. Not everyone can afford $20 every two months for minor upgrades to a game they like. That means people have to decide what they're willing to buy and it means that when someone WITH all of the DLC inevitably updates an edit of theirs on the workshop and includes a piece of newer gear, then uploads the changes, the person without the means is left in the dark. You run into your basic framework of classism with this with the "haves" and the "have nots." The "haves" will always do their best to shame the "have nots" for somehow lacking ingenuity or the same commitment as them without seeing the bigger picture. What's worse is that these packs aren't coming with an option for bundling for a discount. There's no "year two" season pass, this is all piecemeal and the announcements are coming in hot without much lead time. If someone did have to save up $20 for them or weigh the purchase against other $20 purchases the value in what's been announced (or the Stardom DLC) doesn't align with the value of previous DLCs. |
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Post by dnmt on Oct 18, 2019 22:00:56 GMT
Who in this thread has been talking like that? Who in this thread has said "UHH NOT WORTH $20" and left it simply at that with no further explanation? If people have been doing that and you feel so strongly that they deserve to be shamed, then come on now, put your money where your mouth is and start shaming them. Go ahead and tag the people acting in the way you've described in your next post. Because from where I'm standing it sure looks like you're just concocting fictitious quotes from people that don't actually exist to try and bolster your argument. Throughout this thread you've posted these nonsensical fake quotes where people who don't like the price apparently are cavemen who type in block caps. Show us these cro-magnons you're quoting. Nobody is. He's constructing arguments built on the backs of straw men or random complaints via Twitter and conflating them with people supplying valid criticisms of this pricing strategy. Some people can't be wrong and feel so self-righteous that the blinders of cognitive dissonance occlude everything but their narrow view of the world. It's a pessimistic way for someone to justify their own behavior and nihilistic views of humanity and society. This poster seems to genuinely believe that people who disagree with their assertion deserve to be *publicly shamed* for not seeing the value in a certain price point for downloadable content. And of course now he's the victim. Yawn. I love supporting Fire Pro, I'll always love supporting Fire Pro, but that means pointing out that the Stardom DLC and now this arena DLC are probably priced about 2x what they should be and that the more of this expensive DLC they release the more they fracture the community. Not everyone can afford $20 every two months for minor upgrades to a game they like. That means people have to decide what they're willing to buy and it means that when someone WITH all of the DLC inevitably updates an edit of theirs on the workshop and includes a piece of newer gear, then uploads the changes, the person without the means is left in the dark. You run into your basic framework of classism with this with the "haves" and the "have nots." The "haves" will always do their best to shame the "have nots" for somehow lacking ingenuity or the same commitment as them without seeing the bigger picture. What's worse is that these packs aren't coming with an option for bundling for a discount. There's no "year two" season pass, this is all piecemeal and the announcements are coming in hot without much lead time. If someone did have to save up $20 for them or weigh the purchase against other $20 purchases the value in what's been announced (or the Stardom DLC) doesn't align with the value of previous DLCs. This is so wildly off-base that I have to reply directly. For starters, I am not a capitalist. I am an anarcho-communist. My views on capitalism are about as negative as one can be. However, I'm also a pragmatist, so I'm (begrudgingly) operating in the system in my own way. To that end, I like to support companies that provide me with entertainment. If I have to give money to anyone, I want it to be given to people who create something I enjoy. In this particular case, there is a tiny group of people in Japan putting in a ton of work to give us a product we truly enjoy. For that alone, we should be grateful, as they are going above and beyond to provide us with something that the general market has clearly said they don't want. For the most part, the only reason we even have this game in the first place is because the fans demanded it. They are catering the game to a tiny sliver of the market. I highly doubt Matsumoto is living some lavish lifestyle because he's charging $20 for DLC. My argument is that if you want to support a small game developer in an industry that is dominated by billion dollar multi-national corporations, your best bet is to give them all the money you can to ensure they stay afloat. Voting with your wallet is the only way to keep content coming and to keep this company supporting the game long after its release. The more we purchase, the more we get as a community. If they set up a Patreon, like someone said, I would absolutely support it, as they both deserve and need our support. Someone else in this thread recalled that when the game was announced people were saying they'd pay anything for it. Of course that's hyperbolic, but it's time to put your money where your mouth is and show support for the company that is providing us with so much enjoyment. I fail to see why this is so upsetting to some people, but complaining about prices is only going to result in one thing - less Fire Pro. There's a reason they are charging $20, and I highly doubt it's so Matsumoto can drive a fancy car or something. It's to pay a team who for all intents and purposes is wasting time on a product the general market doesn't want. We have to support them or else they are going to do a cost analysis and realize it's just not worth their effort. I won't deny that I'm a nihilist, but seriously, look at the big picture here. |
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Post by Spunk on Oct 18, 2019 22:15:16 GMT
Matsumoto is an employee that works on the development side. His employers are the publisher that control the price and ultimately the project.
Spike-Chunsoft is not a giant company by any means, but they're still about 200 heads deep and work on both the development and publishing side of the industry. This project was one granted to a long-time employee as a reward and they had zero expectations for it. It far exceeded their expectations and now they're trying to milk it for what it's worth.
Matsumoto talked openly about the things he wanted to include in the game—not as DLC—a long time ago. In his mind he was going to provide as much value as he could because he loves Fire Pro and knows that he was making this game for people that similarly love Fire Pro. It's understandable within the framework that S-C saw the positive reaction and what was most likely an incredibly high sell-through rate from the base game to the DLC and kept pushing for more. They perhaps see Fire Pro fans as "whale" consumers that will gobble up whatever they feed to us with minimal complaints.
I understand being afraid of the rug being pulled on the series again, but it would not be the fault of the end consumer if they pull the plug and stop producing the series entirely. We can't keep blaming ourselves because we're not spending enough money to keep these companies profitable. Trying to publicly shame other fans for not seeing the value in this or wanting a company that has profited off of our love for a game is not akin to whining. We're all in the same boat.
“Struggle so that all may live this rich, overflowing life. And be sure that in this struggle you will find a joy greater than anything else can give.”
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Post by DM_PSX on Oct 18, 2019 22:31:04 GMT
There's no right answer to this argument. It's a zero sum game. Right or wrong it's 19.99 USD on October 30th. Can we talk about the content of the DLC please? ;)
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Post by dnmt on Oct 18, 2019 22:33:01 GMT
Matsumoto is an employee that works on the development side. His employers are the publisher that control the price and ultimately the project. Spike-Chunsoft is not a giant company by any means, but they're still about 200 heads deep and work on both the development and publishing side of the industry. This project was one granted to a long-time employee as a reward and they had zero expectations for it. It far exceeded their expectations and now they're trying to milk it for what it's worth. Matsumoto talked openly about the things he wanted to include in the game—not as DLC—a long time ago. In his mind he was going to provide as much value as he could because he loves Fire Pro and knows that he was making this game for people that similarly love Fire Pro. It's understandable within the framework that S-C saw the positive reaction and what was most likely an incredibly high sell-through rate from the base game to the DLC and kept pushing for more. They perhaps see Fire Pro fans as "whale" consumers that will gobble up whatever they feed to us with minimal complaints. I understand being afraid of the rug being pulled on the series again, but it would not be the fault of the end consumer if they pull the plug and stop producing the series entirely. We can't keep blaming ourselves because we're not spending enough money to keep these companies profitable. Trying to publicly shame other fans for not seeing the value in this or wanting a company that has profited off of our love for a game is not akin to whining. We're all in the same boat. “Struggle so that all may live this rich, overflowing life. And be sure that in this struggle you will find a joy greater than anything else can give.” Very well put. I can’t argue against that point. Perhaps trying to insult the complainers isn’t the best strategy, but I’m just so sick of seeing it every DLC. I’ll concede some ground and say this probably should be $10 (then again, we don’t even know exactly what’s in it yet), but even then people would be saying it should be $5 or free. I just am very protective of the company and want to do everything I can to ensure they succeed. |
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Post by tbsjordan on Oct 18, 2019 23:00:13 GMT
I still haven't figured out why the old arenas are not in this game, I know zero about game development but isn't the base for this game the same? How difficult is it to add them in?
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Post by view619 on Oct 18, 2019 23:41:35 GMT
I still haven't figured out why the old arenas are not in this game, I know zero about game development but isn't the base for this game the same? How difficult is it to add them in? They would need to create the assets for the old arenas in World. I don't know if that would just be the equivalent of a copy-paste in Unity or a complete overhaul, but they're beyond the point of creating new Venue assets "from scratch" at this point. Especially since the team responsible for creating the venues in World left after Early Access ended (that's when we got the Spike Dome and Universo venues as well). |
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Post by tbsjordan on Oct 18, 2019 23:46:43 GMT
Interesting, thanks for the reply. I do hope we see them eventually
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jbravos
Steel Johnson
Old School Guru
Posts: 193
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Post by jbravos on Oct 19, 2019 0:37:51 GMT
So what does championship belt edit parts really mean? More Options? wearing belts to the ring any thoughts?
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Post by view619 on Oct 19, 2019 0:42:56 GMT
So what does championship belt edit parts really mean? More Options? wearing belts to the ring any thoughts? It means adding belts as an extra waist part, so you can put them on entrance attires and wear them to the ring. Maybe use them for in-ring interviews if you're into that, for e-fedding or something. |
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Post by bolleat on Oct 19, 2019 2:20:51 GMT
I just want to say that capitalism has lead to the most free society on earth and if not for capitalism not one of the democratic socialist countries on earth would have healthcare because those of us in the capitalist US pay high drug prices to subsidize the price controlled nonsense in the rest of the world (just for one example). I find it rich that people people would bash someone for being capitalist while on a forum on the internet invented by capitalists about a game that only exists because of capitalism.
Now resume bashing each other for complaining about DLC for the greatest wrestling game ever made.
Thank you.
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Post by faulknasty on Oct 19, 2019 2:31:06 GMT
How the fuck did this thread about DLC for a video game turn into a debate about economic systems. Of course it's the internet. Shit always turns out this way.
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