|
|
Post by OrochiGeese on Sept 29, 2019 8:20:34 GMT
Two unrelated questions:
1) Will a move that increases your match rating increase it by the same amount if there's a rope break?
For example: Will a move that leads to a 2.9 pin boost the rating higher than a move that just gets a rope break?
That doesn't count victories: I'm assuming that a finisher leads to a higher rating when it earns a victory than when it doesn't.
2) Is it regular RNG or Ukemi that controls the possibility that a CPU wrestler will use one of their two "back grapple counter" moves to counter CPU opponent back grapple attempts?
Or does Ukemi only control auto-reversals (like a bodyslam being countered by a roll-up).
The difference being that a 1P could counter a back grapple attempt based on timing but couldn't do anything to cause a roll-up reversal to a move their opponent is doing once they lose the initial grapple tie-up.
I should totally know this but I just can't remember. I've just noticed a LOT of counters to back grapple attempts recently and I'm not sure if it's regular RNG or Ukemi.
|
|
|
|
Post by Recall on Sept 29, 2019 14:29:10 GMT
Aren't back grapples more likely to be reversed in general? Like it always feels like back grapples and corner grapples have different thresholds before being able to land successfully compared to front grapples where you can start spamming big front grapples from the 5 minute mark regardless of damage done to an opponent.
The whole Ukemi thing is baffling to me, it really is :P
|
|
|
|
Post by IamAres on Sept 29, 2019 22:47:27 GMT
2) Is it regular RNG or Ukemi that controls the possibility that a CPU wrestler will use one of their two "back grapple counter" moves to counter CPU opponent back grapple attempts? Regular randomness. Their two back grapple "counters" are, for game purposes, offensive moves in their own right, that a wrestler can perform by winning the grapple. They don't, themselves, have counters, so ukemi has no effect on them. The style-specific counters to specific MOVES, on the other hand (like flipping over a back suplex attempt) are in-game counters and would be suppressed by ukemi. Some of these counters are ALSO a back elbow, but this elbow knocks them down instead of stunning. A lot of moves like this (back grapple, superplex, mount/transitions) are less likely to hit, yes, but I don't know anything about them being coded that way - it's just law of averages. You have to win a minimum of two grapples in a row (for the most part) to hit a back grapple move, AND it could still be countered. You have to win a minimum of two in a row after starting in the right place to hit a corner grapple (both of which can be countered), and a minimum of THREE in a row after starting in the right place to hit a superplex (two of which can be countered). As for the ratings, I don't really know much of anything about all that. |
|
|
|
Post by OrochiGeese on Sept 30, 2019 4:45:41 GMT
Thanks!! 😀
That is what I was hoping since I really didn't want to have to start changing ukemi settings for everyone!
There's just been way too many back grapple reversals recently and it was annoying me.
That last part is what has been tripping me up recently so thanks for the clarification! I'm not seeing too many of these situations. I also generally like them except for that awful counter animation where someone trying to pull guard suddenly appears on the opponent's shoulders (like they were going for a roll-up pin)) and gets slammed just because they were countered while attempting to do the move (and before the guard position actually triggered). I never understood that one. The most obvious counter should be falling into top mount or even just dropping the guy like a small impact spinebuster. It always annoys me in FP when a counter to someone's move causes them to appear to be attempting a different move entirely.
|
|
|
|
Post by IamAres on Sept 30, 2019 7:38:45 GMT
I also generally like them except for that awful counter animation where someone trying to pull guard suddenly appears on the opponent's shoulders (like they were going for a roll-up pin)) and gets slammed just because they were countered while attempting to do the move (and before the guard position actually triggered). I never understood that one. The most obvious counter should be falling into top mount or even just dropping the guy like a small impact spinebuster. It always annoys me in FP when a counter to someone's move causes them to appear to be attempting a different move entirely. I HATE that counter. HAAAAAAAAATE it.
I think what happened there is that they gave the flying armbar the victory roll counters, which is whatever. It makes a certain amount of sense from a certain point of view, and I guess I wouldn't be taken out of it to see, like, Nakamura get countered like that. I'd probably be able to tell he was going for a flying armbar.
But when they added the guard pull, they just slapped that same counter on it, probably thinking "armbar, pull guard, close enough," and then I get Brock fuckin' Lesnar looking like he's going for victory rolls.
I actually don't think it needs to be counterable at all - it puts you in a disadvantageous position, technically, so the only real benefit is for guys who have a VERY strong move from there or who badly outclass their opponents on the ground. It doesn't need a counter - the counter is them winning the grapple and doing whatever they want with their newfound position.
Since mods have given us the ability to do moves out of front facelock drags (and those moves can't be countered after the initial facelock is gotten - well, unless you take too long) I've taken to exclusively assigning the guard pull that way. But otherwise, all you can really do is just keep it exclusively at large damage for guys that really need it and hope for the best.
|
|
|
|
Post by OrochiGeese on Sept 30, 2019 9:23:26 GMT
I HATE that counter. HAAAAAAAAATE it. I think what happened there is that they gave the flying armbar the victory roll counters, which is whatever. It makes a certain amount of sense from a certain point of view, and I guess I wouldn't be taken out of it to see, like, Nakamura get countered like that. I'd probably be able to tell he was going for a flying armbar. But when they added the guard pull, they just slapped that same counter on it, probably thinking "armbar, pull guard, close enough," and then I get Brock fuckin' Lesnar looking like he's going for victory rolls. Yeah, they stretched it too far. I could totally buy that counter for a flying armbar but not for a move where the opponent does the literal opposite of the counter! The move has them falling backward, directly to the ground. The counter has them looking like they jumped onto the opponent's back! It's completely ridiculous! I have a 350 lb heavyweight veteran wrestler who has a background in amateur wrestling. He has no business whatsoever looking like he's about to attempt a victory roll...like 30 seconds into a match no less! I actually don't think it needs to be counterable at all - it puts you in a disadvantageous position, technically, so the only real benefit is for guys who have a VERY strong move from there or who badly outclass their opponents on the ground. It doesn't need a counter - the counter is them winning the grapple and doing whatever they want with their newfound position. 100% agree. The other opponent has the perfect opportunity to counter once the move occurs. We even get to choose those counters so I'd much rather the ukemi counter not occur at all. Since mods have given us the ability to do moves out of front facelock drags (and those moves can't be countered after the initial facelock is gotten - well, unless you take too long) I've taken to exclusively assigning the guard pull that way. But otherwise, all you can really do is just keep it exclusively at large damage for guys that really need it and hope for the best.
I didn't know that the mods allow you to do that with the face lock! That's really cool! 😎 |
|
