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Post by Recall on Jun 1, 2019 12:32:59 GMT
For front grapples there are currently 515 possible moves.
66 moves for small grapples (37 of these are just strikes!) 106 moves exclusive to medium grapples, making a total of 172 moves as a choice for medium grapple. 343 moves exclusive to strong grapples, making a total of 515 moves as a choice for strong grapple.
These totals really lean heavily towards the big match ending strong grapples and I really wish the breakdown made for a larger skew towards making more moves available for medium grapples. For example a Russian Leg Sweep or a Northern Lights suplex are considered finishers in Japan (Giant Baba and Hiroshi Hase for example) hence why they are exclusive to the strong grapples but if these were available (plus other moves, e.g Bearhug, Backslide) at the medium range then it would let you have more creative freedom as currently most edits seem to have very similar small and medium grapples.
There is very little choice for mid match variety and its the top end where all the "cool" moves a crammed into very few available slots.
Maybe I'm alone with this but I hope if any new moves are added to the game then I hope there are more moves at the medium grapple range rather than the strong grapple moves. We all love a flashy cool finisher but those aren't the only moves than define modern wrestlers.
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Post by sofia on Jun 2, 2019 4:14:00 GMT
I won't disagree that the game could use more early match moves, but there's a reason why it seems to be especially well suited to replicating 1990s All Japan - it's meant to be a slightly time compressed facsimile of that style of big moves with false finishes.
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Post by IamAres on Jun 2, 2019 4:52:29 GMT
I'd definitely like to see more, and slower, early match grapples - slower, more wholesomely animated armwringers, armwringers transitioning into minor holds/takedowns, more non-knockdown strikes...I always get more excited for new basic moves than I do new craziness. The new headlocks are among my favorite new moves that we've gotten.
This is one reason I can't live without the move lists mod anymore - early matches in FP can get stale because they can only do so much: you've got room for a basic punch, a slam, a takedown, and a knockdown, and that's essentially your light grapple set. You're gonna see the same buildup every time. But when you can have four punches/chops, two slam/takedowns, three transitional moves and two or three knockdowns, you don't know exactly what you're gonna see and it stays much more varied.
I'd still like to see more light grapples PERIOD, but variety mitigates the lack of absolute volume somewhat.
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Post by Dawnbr3ak3r on Jun 2, 2019 5:08:59 GMT
The game is hurting for more arm and leg-targeting moves.
I think there's all of like five Standing Grapples that target the legs.
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Post by sofia on Jun 2, 2019 5:34:21 GMT
The game is hurting for more arm and leg-targeting moves. I think there's all of like five Standing Grapples that target the legs. There's a couple of submissions, the dragon screws, Ashi Yokosuka, and a couple of leg trips, yeah. Bsck grapples add a joint kick, the shin breaker, the knee clip tackle and Zack Sabre's finisher. You end up with a lot of samey leg offense. :/
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Post by OrochiGeese on Jun 2, 2019 6:01:18 GMT
That's a problem I regularly run into.
Although many of my edits became infamous for head drops, I love leg work. The problem is that I already have enough wrestlers that target the leg and adding any more would lead to too much move sharing in the early/mid match. There are enough end game leg submissions across the game that it's easy to have different finishers. But the build to that point has become kind of repetitive once you have more than like 5 wrestlers that work the leg as their primary target. And that damn "elbow to knee" move is so cool looking but SOOO weak in regards to HP draining. It's a f'n elbow to the knee cap, how is it so weak!? Ugh!
Same issue with arm work in regards to there being too little variety for early/mid match stuff.
I also would love more "teases" to bigger moves. KOC 2's clutch system was awesome and one reason why was the early moves for each clutch. The double axe handle from powerbomb clutch was a great tease to the actual powerbombs later in the match. There's nothing like that in FPW. There are like 50 powerbombs in large but nothing in early or medium damage (besides the piledriver moves that belong in large damage) that teases a powerbomb later in the match.
I'd love more slam moves. That new hip toss is really useful and I want more like that.
Also agree how cool the new headlocks are!
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Post by Recall on Jun 2, 2019 6:04:38 GMT
Here is the entire list of front small grapples and I would like to see more "B" moves that don't result in a knockdown and maybe a nice standing hammerlock, it shouldn't submit anyone but it would be just nice to see. Small Front Grapple 1. Knuckle Arrow 2. Wrist Punch 3. Face Straight 4. Upper Blow 5. Hammer Punch 6. Seikentsuki Punch 7. Body Punch 8. Face Slap 9. Face Slap B 10. Chest Slap 11. Knife-Edge Chop 12. Throat Chop 13. Jigoku-Tsuki 14. Jigoku-Tsuki B 15. Shoutei 16. Sledgehammer 17. Hammer Blow 18. Elbow to the Crown 19. Elbow Stamp 20. Elbow Stamp (Neck) 21. Elbow Stamp (Arm) 22. Elbow Stamp (Leg) 23. Elbow Butt 24. Elbow Smash 25. European Uppercut 26. Low Kick 27. Rounding Low Kick 28. Front Low Kick 29. Toe Kick 30. Toe Kick B 31. Axe Kick 32. Face Knee Lift 33. Body Knee Lift 34. Thrusting Knee 35. Side Body Knee Lift 36. Thigh Kick 37. Leg-hold Slap 38. Leg Trip 39. Shoulder Butt (Arm) 40. Arm Breaker 41. Thumbing to the Eyes 42. Thumbing to the Eyes B 43. Face Raking 44. Face Raking B 45. Push Over 46. Bodyslam 47. Women's Bodyslam 48. High Angle Bodyslam 49. Gorilla Slam 50. Hip Toss 51. Arm Whip 52. Cyclone Whip 53. Flying Mare 54. Fireman's Carry 55. Drop Toe Hold 56. Leg Spin 57. Dragon Screw 58. Leg Tackle 59. Neck Toss 60. Sweeping Hip Throw 61. Oosotogari 62. Takedown 63. Sweep Mount 64. Pin Down 65. Guard Position 66. Back Switch
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Post by OrochiGeese on Jun 2, 2019 6:13:35 GMT
I want more of those "B" moves too! Those variations are some of my favorite recent additions to the game!
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Post by Severla on Jun 2, 2019 7:21:25 GMT
Im not really surprised that there arent a ton of Small Dmg grapple moves, because even 1 Off vs 10 Def will quickly advance into Medium Dmg if the Edit lands several moves in a row.
Ive actually been setting Standing Front grapples recently as:
A) Standing Strike - Usually quicker strikes animation-wise. this move will be 10-15% throughout the entire logic (15%->10%->8% usually).
B) Knockdown/Lift - either a bodyslam, fireman carry, or a knockdown strike for strike heavy guys. move will start 10-15%, fall to 5-8%, then 0%.
C) B Move - used with Sml Dmg stun gating to nearly always (ie 60%+) be used with a Sml/Med Strike that wouldnt knockdown until late match. These moves stay roughly 5-10% throughout logic.
D) Standing Strike/Knockdown - usually a slower standing strike (again, animation-wise) for early, or potentially just a knockdown strike for limb-targeting edits to get some early stomp action in. These will start WAY higher, at like 20-25%, fall down to 10-15%, then be 0% in large in favor of the faster strike/bigger knockdowns.
This uses the Small category more as a VERY early 'soft-exchange' of moves, but they'll stay into Medium as to extend the duration of Medium to further lengths. I plotted this at first in order to actually extend Small but it really is just super short. After embracing it as an 'early Medium' and just setting the Logic to blend the two together (then similarly blending Medium into Large) has given me a better appreciation of when those big moves DO start cropping up.
I understand the 'samey' argument, though, but early match wrestling usually is just a bunch of flavor-striking and a few shoulder blocks, etc.
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Post by craziej2k on Jun 2, 2019 9:23:18 GMT
FP2 has a comtributor pack of moves that adds about 60 moves to the sml damage category, a few are taken from other categories but a lot are brand new moves.
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Post by view619 on Jun 2, 2019 12:21:41 GMT
FP2 has a comtributor pack of moves that adds about 60 moves to the sml damage category, a few are taken from other categories but a lot are brand new moves. Modded options will always resolve the issue of limited base game features. I'm assuming the OP wants to see these changes in the base game, without the requirement of mods though.
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Post by Recall on Jun 2, 2019 13:12:16 GMT
FP2 has a comtributor pack of moves that adds about 60 moves to the sml damage category, a few are taken from other categories but a lot are brand new moves. Modded options will always resolve the issue of limited base game features. I'm assuming the OP wants to see these changes in the base game, without the requirement of mods though. Yes I'm strictly a console user, I always forget that for the PC users they have mods to fix any possible flaw.
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aroo
Steel Johnson
Snackdown
Posts: 243
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Post by aroo on Jun 2, 2019 13:33:48 GMT
i don't know why basic pinfalls like the school boy or backslide aren't in small grapple
you can already do la magistrals in small or whatever in small (on the ground), and they don't do enough (or any) HP damage to where it'd change anything pace-wise, nor I think they need to take one of five slots for a 'big' move or a submission hold.
(im aware you can do this with move data editor mod but this should be a thing for vanilla/ps4 users imo)
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Post by Zealot on Jun 2, 2019 13:48:02 GMT
Yeah I never understood that either. It's almost like when they originally organized the moves, they just decided that all pinning moves must be strong grapple.
Also, I feel like must be some nude photo blackmail shit going on that is prevening the devs from adding a small grapple hammerlock to the vanilla game. Heaven knows worse blackmail was had previously for excluding the testicular claw.
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Post by ligerbear on Jun 3, 2019 16:59:50 GMT
They need to still stretch out the middle section of the match! It goes by sometimes in one move
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