Post by OrochiGeese on Mar 30, 2019 4:49:26 GMT
Thanks for the responses guys! 💡
Well, this reletively new trick if you make one of the pin slots "nonuse" and set it to 100%, they will do nothing but wait. So have that edit do a move that facedowns, and have his nonuse at 100%. Then have the other edit facedown gated for the finish.
It'd be like this:
EDIT B: move that does facedown -> nonuse 100% (waiting)
EDIT A: facedown gate kicks in and finish happens
That new trick is REALLY interesting to me. So it effectively causes no follow-up whatsoever from the partner so they don't mess up the finish. I really like that and see it as being potentially helpful for tag team spots.
What I was doing was having the partner taunt immediately after hitting his move so the taunt would occupy them while the legal partner attempted the face down pin or submission. It was working well for me and I liked watching them taunt right after their hit their big move. But this new "nonuse" idea is VERY cool and has other non-tag applications as well. Thanks for telling me about it! 😁
The thing is, what type of situation are you using to set up this double team spot?
I wanted to try to set up a spot using the "hold opponent from behind" move which allows the non-legal partner to come into the ring and hit the prone opponent. But as I said in my earlier post, I have run into this problem:
1) R Trigger headlock isn't a move available to start sequences.
2) Therefore, I can't do R-Trigger->Lift Opponent up (which would then lead into a back grapple)
3) That means that the R Trigger headlock ALWAYS leads to face down.
I can't do 100% pick-up to lead to a back grapple in THAT situation because then the same logic would kick in after the edit's partner hits their move sending the opponent to face down. Since I can't have Wrestler A sequence off of Wrestler B's actual move, Wrestler A is simply reacting to the resulting down state of that move. But that means they are encountering the same "face down" situation AFTER their partner's attack as they are after the R Trigger headlock that brought them to the corner to set up the double team spot in the first place.
The key question here is how can I allow an edit to always pick up the opponent after R-Trigger (to lead into the back grapple tag setup) but NOT have them pick the opponent up after the partner does the move sending the opponent face down for the finish? It's not a problem neutralizing the partner, it's a problem having the legal man using a pin or submission to finish the match after the spot but not try to finish before the spot (and after R-Trigger). I can't have the down state be 100% pick up in one situation (after R-Trigger) and 100% face down submission in another. (after partner's move). And priorities are no help to me here since we can't priority from R Trigger or priority from a partner's move.
To add on to what Teist was saying:
So probably what I'd recommend, in order to have it work reliably without becoming overbearing is to have one edit reliably "stand back" when their opponent is face-down in large damage, which isn't going to come up terribly often except for whatever set-up move you want. Then, if there's a double team move that ends face-down, you can use that as a trigger, or basically any other move that ends face-down, OR in theory a move that ends face-up prioed into rolling the opponent over, although that would look aesthetically weird. The sacrifice there is that one edit will have a move that they just wait for the opponent to stand up from, that will only be followed up if the other edit is in the ring and ready to hit a finisher. I can probably mock up a team tonight that does what you're asking, or I'm sure Twiste can if he has more time.
If I understand what you are saying, what happens when the legal man isn't the one initiating the double team move and is therefore going to just "stand back" while the non-legal man attempts a pin or submission?
I don't mind giving an edit a []+X move that is a special which has 0% for "standing" & "standing dazed" and is intended only as a "come into the ring when partner is grabbing opponent from behind" spot to attack the opponent and set up the face down move of the partner. But how can we reliably set that "grab from behind" spot up using the R-Trigger headlock to allow the legal man to properly position the opponent for the "grab from behind" move given the "dual purpose" "face down" usage problem I mentioned above.
Getting into "Grab from behind" from front grapple isn't hard (just do the "switch to back" move) but the likelihood of the edit being in the proper position to initiate the "Grab from behind" is REALLY low unless you lead into the spot with the R Trigger headlock. It's so low that it doesn't even seem worth it to me to restrict the tag edits so much in this way. If we could somehow solve the R-Trigger issue, then we're set.
I did extensive testing on this a few months ago and just couldn't figure out how to compensate for the fact that we can't priority from R Trigger headlock. Therefore, the same "100%" pick up opponent that occurs after the R Trigger will apply AFTER the tag partner comes in and lands the opponent face down. I just can't get my mind to wrap around this issue and find a solution even though I feel like there may be a solution: even one that doesn't require mods (or Spike to allow us to priority from R-Trigger which would be ideal).
It'd be like this:
EDIT B: move that does facedown -> nonuse 100% (waiting)
EDIT A: facedown gate kicks in and finish happens
That new trick is REALLY interesting to me. So it effectively causes no follow-up whatsoever from the partner so they don't mess up the finish. I really like that and see it as being potentially helpful for tag team spots.
What I was doing was having the partner taunt immediately after hitting his move so the taunt would occupy them while the legal partner attempted the face down pin or submission. It was working well for me and I liked watching them taunt right after their hit their big move. But this new "nonuse" idea is VERY cool and has other non-tag applications as well. Thanks for telling me about it! 😁
The thing is, what type of situation are you using to set up this double team spot?
I wanted to try to set up a spot using the "hold opponent from behind" move which allows the non-legal partner to come into the ring and hit the prone opponent. But as I said in my earlier post, I have run into this problem:
1) R Trigger headlock isn't a move available to start sequences.
2) Therefore, I can't do R-Trigger->Lift Opponent up (which would then lead into a back grapple)
3) That means that the R Trigger headlock ALWAYS leads to face down.
I can't do 100% pick-up to lead to a back grapple in THAT situation because then the same logic would kick in after the edit's partner hits their move sending the opponent to face down. Since I can't have Wrestler A sequence off of Wrestler B's actual move, Wrestler A is simply reacting to the resulting down state of that move. But that means they are encountering the same "face down" situation AFTER their partner's attack as they are after the R Trigger headlock that brought them to the corner to set up the double team spot in the first place.
The key question here is how can I allow an edit to always pick up the opponent after R-Trigger (to lead into the back grapple tag setup) but NOT have them pick the opponent up after the partner does the move sending the opponent face down for the finish? It's not a problem neutralizing the partner, it's a problem having the legal man using a pin or submission to finish the match after the spot but not try to finish before the spot (and after R-Trigger). I can't have the down state be 100% pick up in one situation (after R-Trigger) and 100% face down submission in another. (after partner's move). And priorities are no help to me here since we can't priority from R Trigger or priority from a partner's move.
So probably what I'd recommend, in order to have it work reliably without becoming overbearing is to have one edit reliably "stand back" when their opponent is face-down in large damage, which isn't going to come up terribly often except for whatever set-up move you want. Then, if there's a double team move that ends face-down, you can use that as a trigger, or basically any other move that ends face-down, OR in theory a move that ends face-up prioed into rolling the opponent over, although that would look aesthetically weird. The sacrifice there is that one edit will have a move that they just wait for the opponent to stand up from, that will only be followed up if the other edit is in the ring and ready to hit a finisher. I can probably mock up a team tonight that does what you're asking, or I'm sure Twiste can if he has more time.
If I understand what you are saying, what happens when the legal man isn't the one initiating the double team move and is therefore going to just "stand back" while the non-legal man attempts a pin or submission?
I don't mind giving an edit a []+X move that is a special which has 0% for "standing" & "standing dazed" and is intended only as a "come into the ring when partner is grabbing opponent from behind" spot to attack the opponent and set up the face down move of the partner. But how can we reliably set that "grab from behind" spot up using the R-Trigger headlock to allow the legal man to properly position the opponent for the "grab from behind" move given the "dual purpose" "face down" usage problem I mentioned above.
Getting into "Grab from behind" from front grapple isn't hard (just do the "switch to back" move) but the likelihood of the edit being in the proper position to initiate the "Grab from behind" is REALLY low unless you lead into the spot with the R Trigger headlock. It's so low that it doesn't even seem worth it to me to restrict the tag edits so much in this way. If we could somehow solve the R-Trigger issue, then we're set.
I did extensive testing on this a few months ago and just couldn't figure out how to compensate for the fact that we can't priority from R Trigger headlock. Therefore, the same "100%" pick up opponent that occurs after the R Trigger will apply AFTER the tag partner comes in and lands the opponent face down. I just can't get my mind to wrap around this issue and find a solution even though I feel like there may be a solution: even one that doesn't require mods (or Spike to allow us to priority from R-Trigger which would be ideal).
