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Post by Pandakid on Feb 17, 2019 5:18:16 GMT
I paid £70 for the deluxe edition on PS4 because I’m dumb, and blinded by the shiny new Fire Pro product. There will be one DLC update (of decent size and content) and then they will stop. I’ll put money on it, oh wait I have already. you'll get the dlc you paid for nothing more nothing less |
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Post by Recall on Feb 17, 2019 5:42:56 GMT
That isn’t a guarantee.
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Post by Spunk on Feb 17, 2019 7:03:56 GMT
Honestly, the LAST thing any of us should be doing right now is pressuring Spike to release something before they are ready. Every thing they have done in the last few months to modify the game has clearly been either intentionally rushed or recklessly released without a full testing or concern for the consequences. This is NOT a company we want to be rushing right now. We have broken irish whip logic in 2019 in the latest game from a series known for getting fundamentals right - something that negatively affects every match in Fire Pro except for shoot matches. And we have that because they didn't test the repercussions of recent changes that we never even asked for. If they are operating under such internal pressure for things we aren't asking them about, imagine what half-baked DLC we end up with as a result of fan/consumer pressure? The gaming industry has always had a healthy debate between "don't release a game/patch/DLC until it's fully ready" vs. "a game can always be worked on but the fans want it now" perspectives and that's fine. I get that. Most people choose where to draw the line somewhere between those extremes. But when a company already has a proven recent track record for months of messing up the game by botching updates due to being rushed/undermanned/underfunded, the last thing we need to do now is give them external pressure. The pressure we should be giving Spike is to fix what they already broke, not to accidentally break new things with DLC that probably isn't anywhere near ready. Let's pressure them to take the time and care to fix current things that shouldn't have been broken in the first place, not break more just because we want the DLC quicker. Uh wasn't the Yes/No completely fucking borked in Returns and literally never fixed because patches didn't exist? And not figured out for years. Wasn't there a bunch of other shit just borked in Returns, too? Don't we still have that annoying-ass shit where wrestlers just BONK right into a turnbuckle? Didn't the game release with Irish Whips into the corners being fucked and them basically having to fudge some shit to have wrestlers kinda magnetize into the corner? I'm trying to not bother wading into this kiddie pool full of landminds because eh there's not much to be talked about with one tweet and being labeled a Negative Nancy or some shit. But like nah dawg they haven't really ever been able to get the fundamentals right. I mean THEY ESPECIALLY CAN'T GET THE FUNDAMENTALS RIGHT THIS GO AROUND but it's not like Returns was this polished-ass perfect 10/10 game either. >_> Also the only thing I will say is I haven't really seen anyone demanding for a rush-job on patches/DLC. If anything it's been the opposite and most people are saying they're happy to wait for the DLC if it ensures that it isn't busted. Yes people would like shit sooner, but as you said, given their track record people generally have been saying "Take as long as you need to as long as it's not busted." Only way I can see someone misconstruing anyone talking about the DLC as wanting to be rushed out is them clowning on the original release dates of this shit that was supposed to be last year for Fire Promoter and the Juniors then got pushed to "January 2019" for Fire Promoter and "February/March" for the Juniors DLC. Now it's "Early 2019" for both. I can't nail down the article that mentioned this delay/change but it's around, somewhere. It came out in like November. Anyway, point is, I don't think anyone's DEMANDING they release the DLC in a rush and even if they did evidently Spike is gonna take it's time anyway considering the delays we've already faced and will more than likely continue to face. The development of the DLC (and the messaging of it) is in a shambles and has been for ages. People (rightfully) complain. People (righfully) complain about people complaining—though I think if anything the complaining about people complaining is often more egregious than the complaining itself but whatever. So it goes. YES/NO inversion didn't break something, it was a thing with an easy workaround to it. Them breaking game mechanics is actually, literally breaking something. This community turns to self-immolation and finger-pointing waaaay too quickly. |
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Post by bnavarro on Feb 17, 2019 7:14:37 GMT
They have to deliver on the promised DLC. I don’t think they can cancel it after many people bought the season pass.
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Post by view619 on Feb 17, 2019 7:22:23 GMT
They have to deliver on the promised DLC. I don’t think they can cancel it after many people bought the season pass. Yes, but what they actually deliver (content/quality-wise) is still unknown. They could release a buggy, limited Fire Promoter mode and some half-assed Fighting Roads for the final DLC and that's a promise fulfilled. At this point, there should be hope that they deliver something substantial as opposed to just fulfilling their obligations. |
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Post by Spunk on Feb 17, 2019 7:26:31 GMT
They have to deliver on the promised DLC. I don’t think they can cancel it after many people bought the season pass. Yeah, I dunno. Don't think anyone actually thinks they'll not deliver the DLC. The delays have been really, truly obnoxious. As much as we all understand "getting it right," this is a game built in Unity without a ton of complication involved. Stuff like CPU logic can and will get broken when they start putzing around, but there are fewer systems to break compared to larger, more complicated games. The delays are ridiculous in that regard and give people little faith in them delivering a polished, working end product. Especially all of this considering on PC we have modders fixing issues and adding features at a fairly steady rate. There will always need to be a further level of polish for an official product, obviously, but yeesh. |
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Post by bnavarro on Feb 17, 2019 7:34:48 GMT
I believe it’s a positive sign that liger is involved in the Jr DLC. I wish he was more clear in the tweet he sent. Are they both coming together?
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Post by OrochiGeese on Feb 17, 2019 8:38:12 GMT
The reason some people might be impatient is because they paid for this through season pass 9 months ago and still haven’t received the product. And I totally understand that. I really do. It's just that I want you (and everyone else here) to get the true value for the money that you spent for the Season Pass as well as the base game. And I don't think Spike is able to provide us with that given their current state of coding and failure to test. Each time an update breaks the game and that game stays broken for a while, it reduces the value of the product that we paid for. Right now we're playing a game with broken irish whips. That's a helluva lot less useful to me than FPW was a few weeks ago. You paid for the DLC and you want to receive the product. But you want to receive a good product and one that doesn't diminish the value of the base product you paid for. I don't think Spike is able to deliver that right now on any type of set time frame. And the more pressure they get from us, the less likely they are to actually put the time into releasing a finished product that was properly tested. Personally, I would be MUCH more optimistic if this was their mindset: 1) Test the patch/DLC fully to make sure that it a) does everything they want it to do and b) doesn't break anything that is easily tested for (like going into a match for 2 minutes to check irish whips). 2) If it turns out they did break something (whether they realized it themselves or heard about it from the community), they would make it their first and next priority to properly fix and test the fix before moving onto anything else. Spunk is 100% right - this doesn't HAVE to be such a hard process for them and I recognize that unintended consequences would happen with patches/DLC. I'd rather they try to improve the game, make some non-obvious mistakes (the kind that wouldn't be clear with simple testing), and then quickly address what's wrong. If we saw quicker and more competent turnaround for their errors, I'd have a lot more confidence that this team (the THIRD development team) can get their footing back with this game and are ready to be held to a professional deadline schedule. My lack of confidence stems in their overall schedule delays plus their lack of communication about those delays plus their inability to release patches that don't break obvious things plus their inability to communicate and fix those obvious things in a timely matter. Right now it's like they are a one-man hobby team who could perma-ghost 👻 on us at any minute. I load this game up almost every night and still enjoy it. Touchwork and irish whip issues aside, I still love FPW and don't see myself stopping any more now than I did with FPR in 2015. But I simply can't believe that a thing as basic as irish whips have been borked for over a week with no fix - in a Fire Pro game in 2019 that is over one year out of Early Access - with absolutely no communication from Spike as to when this is going to be fixed. I just can't imagine expecting a timely release from Spike nor can I imagine anything good will come to even hinting to Spike to rush anything right now - even a patch FIXING the irish whip issue - until we give them time to get their bearings. I'd love to see them release an irish whip patch within the next few weeks that works and doesn't break anything else obvious. If they even advertise the DLC right now, it's going to be added onto a broken game. They need to fix what they broke and show that is a top priority in general. After that, I'll have higher expectations for them as a result of them earning them. Right now I'm just trying not to cry into my Goose Juice any time a healthy and momentum-filled edit ignores a potentially match-ending sequenced pin to suddenly tag out to their partner (because a random interval of time has passed) as the opponent makes a hot tag and wonders why he was allowed to survive. Seriously - I've been Goocifer'd. & touch u was like some kind of foreshadowing for & touchwork u. Edit: TLDR - Geese wants Goose Juice 🥤 |
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Post by jetlag on Feb 17, 2019 10:00:12 GMT
YES/NO inversion didn't break something, it was a thing with an easy workaround to it. Them breaking game mechanics is actually, literally breaking something. This community turns to self-immolation and finger-pointing waaaay too quickly.
FPR was broken/buggy in a few ways. Breathing/Spirit/Recovery were messed up. You literally could not win with certain moves (Five Star Frog Splash, all diving moves to a standing opponent etc.) The Yes/No thing was only screwed up by the translation company, to be fair. Not to mention limitations like only having 1 attire per edit, match ratings only in a mode where you could not use edits etc. Like I said, people were used to it and accepted it. Of course, that does not excuse the current, glaringly obvious blunders of breaking irish whips or corner grapples, but atleast we know a fix will eventually come (and even if there won't be a fix, we can eventually fix the game ourselves through mods.... no, I'm not making excuses and of course it's their job blablabla, just trying to remain positive.)
The really weird thing to me is why they randomly decided to change things such as tag logic. (Probably going through the code again - thinking: "Hmm, thinking about it, this doesn't look right - let's change those number checks and calculations up a little" meanwhile years of carefully crafted community edit logic go crashing down...)
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Post by view619 on Feb 17, 2019 16:14:08 GMT
YES/NO inversion didn't break something, it was a thing with an easy workaround to it. Them breaking game mechanics is actually, literally breaking something. This community turns to self-immolation and finger-pointing waaaay too quickly.
FPR was broken/buggy in a few ways. Breathing/Spirit/Recovery were messed up. You literally could not win with certain moves (Five Star Frog Splash, all diving moves to a standing opponent etc.) The Yes/No thing was only screwed up by the translation company, to be fair. Not to mention limitations like only having 1 attire per edit, match ratings only in a mode where you could not use edits etc. Like I said, people were used to it and accepted it. Of course, that does not excuse the current, glaringly obvious blunders of breaking irish whips or corner grapples, but atleast we know a fix will eventually come (and even if there won't be a fix, we can eventually fix the game ourselves through mods.... no, I'm not making excuses and of course it's their job blablabla, just trying to remain positive.)
The really weird thing to me is why they randomly decided to change things such as tag logic. (Probably going through the code again - thinking: "Hmm, thinking about it, this doesn't look right - let's change those number checks and calculations up a little" meanwhile years of carefully crafted community edit logic go crashing down...)
Carl actually fixed the Irish whips with his latest Mod Pack version. So, if you haven't yet definitely pick that up. |
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Post by baronfreebird on Feb 18, 2019 18:42:12 GMT
In FPR, It was the Recovery and Breathing settings that were both tied together, relying on the Breathing setting. Spirit/Willpower was not affected by that. I believe Jason Blackhart said that this had been messed up since it was introduced, which was way back on 6MS! Not positive about that - I may be remembering incorrectly - and I'm not sure if the GBA games were affected as well.
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Post by Nth on Feb 18, 2019 20:53:02 GMT
Taichi and Matsumoto at dinner; looks like Matsumoto is dead inside.
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Post by Zealot on Feb 18, 2019 23:14:34 GMT
Nah. Taichi just explained to him that the game needs to improve or he's getting booked for a Minoru Suzuki stretching session.
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Post by sofia on Feb 19, 2019 7:28:55 GMT
"There's a certain air about him that is totally better than what he was like last year.
Since that time up til now, he's been pushing forward with relentless momentum.
He reported to me that they've been making smooth and steady progress in reviving Fire Pro so far.
I'm expecting that we'll get the DLC on 2.28. What he told me about the Fire Promoter mode sounds fun, so I'll be waiting for it!"
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VCR
Steel Johnson
Posts: 134
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Post by VCR on Feb 19, 2019 9:03:48 GMT
2.28 for japan 2.27 for the states before someone gets confused
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