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Post by DM_PSX on Nov 18, 2018 19:39:52 GMT
How are running and corner logics fucked? "Overzealous dragging" - they literally changed it a year ago to check before basically every ground move. Carl even confirmed that change. I recorded a PPV yesterday and had to stop and restart 2 of the matches due to the end game logic kicking in. One guy hit his finisher 33 seconds into the match. Their logic is set correctly. It's an issue that pops up like once every ten matches or so. Just one of many little issues that have come up in the last few updates. The corner issue is that often wrestlers used their standing or dazed logic states instead and don't go for a corner move. I've had guys do their stalling or circle, and another guy do his running attack to a dazed guy on a cornered opponent. Which causes the awkward 'run into turnbuckle and stop' issue. Wrestlers don't stay in the corner long enough to even be grappled anymore a lot of the time. These moves are almost 100% a non factor for my matches anymore. The CPU drags downed opponents all the time for no reason. They do exactly what you said above. There is no reason to drag a wrestler half way across the ring before moves that aren't affected by rope breaks. I have guys who were all about stomping people when they were down, but can't do it as much because they waste half their time dragging their opponent who then stands up. Especially early in the match when there is no time for that. The proper way to handle is to check for a pin or submission type move first. Not one size fits all. The CPU often brain farts on running moves. They often don't even attempt their move and just run into their opponent. Or they run and stop when the opponent is still dazed in the center. Yeah that's just a consequence of the opponent staying down. If you don't want to turn down the percentage, just priority it into something like a pin or a taunt. If they are faced down, you get take a free splash pin that won't end the match. |
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Nov 18, 2018 20:02:34 GMT
I recorded a PPV yesterday and had to stop and restart 2 of the matches due to the end game logic kicking in. One guy hit his finisher 33 seconds into the match. Their logic is set correctly. It's an issue that pops up like once every ten matches or so. Just one of many little issues that have come up in the last few updates. Thats super fucking weird. I've never seen that happen, pre or post 2.0. That is really early in a match, wonder if anyone else has seen finishers only set in large come that early in a match? The corner issue is that often wrestlers used their standing or dazed logic states instead and don't go for a corner move. I've had guys do their stalling or circle, and another guy do his running attack to a dazed guy on a cornered opponent. Which causes the awkward 'run into turnbuckle and stop' issue. Wrestlers don't stay in the corner long enough to even be grappled anymore a lot of the time. These moves are almost 100% a non factor for my matches anymore. I saw this occationally pre 2.0, though never with the frequency you're talking about, and I see it about the same amount post patch. I get corner grapples pretty regularly. The CPU drags downed opponents all the time for no reason. They do exactly what you said above. There is no reason to drag a wrestler half way across the ring before moves that aren't affected by rope breaks. I have guys who were all about stomping people when they were down, but can't do it as much because they waste half their time dragging their opponent who then stands up. Especially early in the match when there is no time for that. The proper way to handle is to check for a pin or submission type move first. Not one size fits all. This has always been the logic, even before 2.0. Its a combination of dragging opponents away from the ropes for moves, and the actual drag logic the edit has, since thats a front grapple setting thats also tied to "Discretion." I'm guessing you're seeing it more in 2.0? The CPU often brain farts on running moves. They often don't even attempt their move and just run into their opponent. Or they run and stop when the opponent is still dazed in the center. Again, I've seen this since before 1.02. It has to do with distance of the opponent and whether they are in direct line to perform the move. It is annoying, but I'm not getting it with more frequency since the update.
Not sure if you've mentioned this in a previous post, but did you use mods in 1.02? Some of Carl's mods would definitely impact some of the issues, and it could just be the return to vanilla that is causing the game to look/feel different?
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Post by DM_PSX on Nov 18, 2018 21:26:09 GMT
Lanky, I'm on Vanilla on a new laptop that has never had mods. I'm not using 2.0 as my limit for when these issues appeared. We've had a few updates in the last 6 months from a new team, and we have it's of unintended behavior.
The CPU dragging logic was changed last year. I know that it's working 'as intended', but it has bad consequences that weren't thought about. It works great for it's intended purpose, it's the side effects that ruin it. You don't need to drag someone so you can stomp them or pick them up. Matches that used to flow properly have now turned into people taking turns dragging each other and standing up. It just needs another pass to take the next move into account. When you have 2 wrestlers who rely on getting people down and hitting fierce ground moves, it ruins the whole match.
This is just like the guys staying down for the pin after top rope moves. It works great in that scenario, but you have now to account for it in other scenarios. You have to turn your percentage down, or link the top rope move from the grapple, or you end up spamming it because you end up in a feedback loop of being in the same situation over and over.
The specific running issue is new. It happens when it didn't used to happen. When they are in the correct spot and all lined up. They just don't hit their move. They'll even stop running and stand and go into their standing logic. (This is like in a multi person match, but it happens with with just 1 on 1 now).
Seems like something causes the game to switch from running to standing logic prematurely, as it's the same behavior I see with the corner thing I mentioned.
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Post by otaku2255 on Nov 18, 2018 21:48:08 GMT
I'm not seeing any of the issues mentioned here at all.
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Nov 18, 2018 21:55:36 GMT
I'm not seeing any of the issues mentioned here at all. Yeah honestly I’m not either. Most likely reason is going from a modded 1.02 to a vanilla 2.0, but other than I got no clue. |
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Post by eskiman on Nov 18, 2018 22:28:23 GMT
I've not been able to fire up my pc to watch some sims this weekend until now, I was convinced I agreed with the match pacing issue - to some extent I'm still sure theres been a drop off in match length - I saw it after doing a little bit of a test booking with a spreadsheet and made a post on it about a month ago
I just ran AJ Styles vs Shawn Michaels (big garden arena, and made a new ref with Dawnbr3ak3r's ref settings fron the first page of this thread) - 6 minute match 59%, Shawn hit the top rope elbow in the first minute, and there was four 2.9 pinfalls on AJ throughout the match before a superkick ended it - AJ got a 2.9 pinfall on Shawn after winning a strike contest and pinning - alot of big moves and 2.9's inside 6 minutes. I believed based on edit points they would be really evenly matched and potentially have a good long match
I then ran Undertaker vs Steve Austin (big garden arena, same newly made ref) - 16 minute match 91%, Austin hit two running corner moves, he hit a couple of stunners and dragged taker to the middle of the ring to make a pin so for me that makes alot of sense - match pacing was good, taker hit a chokeslam at about 7 minutes but other than that no signatures or finishers until gone 10 minutes
Will keep simming while I watch takeover
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Nov 18, 2018 22:59:24 GMT
I mean if people really want to test this, they need to run the exact same matches on 1.02 and 2.0 and compare lengths over multiple matchs. If you are just running 2.0 matches and saying theyre short, that could be anything- including stuff unrelated to the update.
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Post by Professor Voodoo on Nov 18, 2018 23:00:42 GMT
A finisher 33 seconds in? Is the finisher assigned to anything in the logic not named "large/critical"?
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Post by eskiman on Nov 18, 2018 23:05:19 GMT
I mean if people really want to test this, they need to run the exact same matches on 1.02 and 2.0 and compare lengths over multiple matchs. If you are just running 2.0 matches and saying theyre short, that could be anything- including stuff unrelated to the update. Good point man, was just interested to see if I could see some of the issues being mentioned on my save file |
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Post by Pandakid on Nov 19, 2018 4:26:08 GMT
 Matches are feeling shorter |
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Post by OrochiGeese on Nov 19, 2018 4:49:58 GMT
It's been hard for me to really remember which specific issues started/were resolved with each new version. I completely agree with Lanky in regards to testing methodology. I mean if people really want to test this, they need to run the exact same matches on 1.02 and 2.0 and compare lengths over multiple matchs. If you are just running 2.0 matches and saying theyre short, that could be anything- including stuff unrelated to the update. Without boot sims or the observations of someone who has really looked under the hood of 2.0 (Carl probably has but I'm not sure if he's posted about finding any specific issues like the ones mentioned in this thread), it's really hard to compare "shorter matches" between 1.02 and 2.0 and say they are a direct result of the upgrade. Shorter matches could be a result of RNG stuff OR perhaps more damage is being done. I don't know if life bars have been added as a mod to 2.0 so that's really the only way to check that out. Here's what I noticed with this specific 2.0 version since updating. This is purely anecdotal observation. I'm not saying that others couldn't/haven't experienced something I haven't. Also, I should note that I've never installed or used mods on any 1.0 version or 2.0. Pure vanilla, baby 🍦 1) I haven't run as many singles matches cause I've been more into tag recently. Tag matches seem just about the same as they used to be and I don't find them ending anytime sooner. Singles matches seem okay but I'm having more issues with RNG/logic in FPW than I did in FPR and 2.0 doesn't seem different than 1.02 in that respect. 2) The "dragging opponent on the ground" is a real drag and has been for multiple versions. It doesn't seem worse now since the release of 2.0 than it did for a few months before that with 1.02. I've seen edits drag opponents closer to the ropes only to then drag them away from the ropes. It's often a mess and is basically: 3) I haven't noticed any early specials or finishers that operate independent of damage categories/logic. Any big moves I've seen that have come out on the earlier side (say, perhaps 5 minutes) was directly tied to a squash as a result of RNG or a damage differential between edits that happened in 1.02 as well. 4) I have noticed some priority logic combinations getting inexplicably dropped but I noticed that pre 2.0 a lot too. CPU logic hasn't been completely reliable in FPW from the beginning but I don't notice any more problems now. 5) I haven't noticed wrestlers attempting to do a "running/standing against dazed opponent" move against cornered opponents. 6) There's only been a few instances of wrestlers not properly executing running moves after starting the run but then not doing anything. This happened in 1.0 and even in FPR sometimes. I don't notice it happening every match though and it seems to occur as a result of ring positioning as if they didn't give themselves enough space from the time they rebounded off the ropes until the time they had to attempt the move. I really hope the new newest team is fixing any available glitches. I'd love an FPW update that had as much match engine/CPU logic and menu reliability as FPR did before we get more modes. |
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Post by Love Wilcox on Nov 19, 2018 9:21:43 GMT
Let me just clarify that my simmed matches aren't necessarily any shorter than before, just that Edits typically seem to be getting to Large/NearDeath logic earlier in the match than before (about 3-4 in game minutes earlier than before for my guys but obviously that'll differ depending on any given Edits params). It isn't horribly game-breaking and I don't feel the need to mess with my edits in order to compensate as the matches themselves are still very good but I most certainly have noticed a change.
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Post by mbxfilms on Nov 19, 2018 12:52:10 GMT
I just have to have rope break off always. It adds nothing to have it on. It interrupts potential good finishes and interrupts logic. It makes top ropes moves frequently get rope breaked. They added the crawl for submissions but its not worth using.
But really that would make the matches longer not shorter because it stalls.
The game is VERY different now that you can set so many priorities. They will go for covers after real match ending moves, so yes the matches will end sooner because they can really try to win. Am I safe to assume most people's priorities end in pin? I use some combos or links to running and diving but mostly it's controlling covers after moves that would actually end the match.
As far as different logic as of updates, I go very extreme on the early and late match logic because they really don't last long.
Espcially the grapple from behind percent. If there is a move I want them to do early in the weak stage then it needs to be VERY high percent.
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Post by Timberwolf on Nov 21, 2018 19:29:01 GMT
I just have to have rope break off always. It adds nothing to have it on. It interrupts potential good finishes and interrupts logic. It makes top ropes moves frequently get rope breaked. They added the crawl for submissions but its not worth using. I actually leave my rope breaks on. It adds drama to the match, especially if I have two fierce rivals going at it. The beauty of Fire Pro is that there is no right way or wrong way to do it. Everyone has their own preferences 😊 |
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Post by Senator Phillips on Nov 21, 2018 19:43:09 GMT
I just have to have rope break off always. It adds nothing to have it on. It interrupts potential good finishes and interrupts logic. It makes top ropes moves frequently get rope breaked. They added the crawl for submissions but its not worth using. I actually leave my rope breaks on. It adds drama to the match, especially if I have two fierce rivals going at it. The beauty of Fire Pro is that there is no right way or wrong way to do it. Everyone has their own preferences 😊 I absolutely agree that rope breaks are generally a positive thing. They also can boost match ratings if they would have been a possible winning move otherwise, or so I remember reading. |
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