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Post by Hal on Sept 30, 2018 3:54:14 GMT
No cut play makes it similar to UWFI tags but with now just pins and other pro wrestling stuff.
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gbm
JIM MINY
Posts: 76
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Post by gbm on Oct 2, 2018 18:12:45 GMT
There's a setting you can change on the Ref that increases the amount of time teammates can be in the ring. I recommend setting this higher if you want the participants to be more involved in the ring. Lower it if it's too long. Short is absurdly short, and Long is absurdly long, so somewhere in the middle will probably be good. Interesting. Where is this setting? Is it when you're creating a new Ref? ...and what does it actually do? Cause them to force the other tag guy out? |
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Post by DM_PSX on Oct 2, 2018 18:24:35 GMT
The biggest issue is the common 'working' logic we give wrestlers doesn't work in a tag situation. You have multiple characters all dragging on the match, and they end up going broadway. Even moments where a new guy tag in have the opponent reverting to the slow feeling out phase.
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Post by mbxfilms on Oct 2, 2018 18:40:40 GMT
Maybe they need to expand the rules? Like choosing to allow 1 save, 2 saves, 3 saves, ect? So they can only break up or enter a limited time on pins and submissions. That way you still get the double teams on tags ins and outs.
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Oct 2, 2018 20:33:15 GMT
Since you already have optimal ref settings for your goals, I think the answer is to increase the "R Trigger headlock/drag" usage for your edits (approximately 10% in Large Damage is what I use for R Trigger for tag edits) and make sure Cooperation is high enough. The combination of higher R trigger plus higher cooperation will cause the edits to drag the opponents to their own corners with the headlock more often in the match. As a result, your edits will be more likely to keep the action in their own corner, effectively "cutting off the ring" so that pinfalls and submissions are less likely to happen toward the middle of the ring and therefore be less likely to be broken up by the non-legal man. As a bonus, you also will get a higher chance of cool teamwork spots happening closer to the corner (like a doomsday device or the "holding opponent from behind" as teammate comes in). This has been a huge help with me and constructing tag matches. Setting the drag usage alone cut my tag matches by about 10 min (game time). If you haven't set this up I would definitely recommend it. |
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Post by OrochiGeese on Oct 3, 2018 4:46:31 GMT
This has been a huge help with me and constructing tag matches. Setting the drag usage alone cut my tag matches by about 10 min (game time). If you haven't set this up I would definitely recommend it. Awesome! I'm really glad to hear that the suggestion helped!! 😃 I like seeing a lot of action from the non-legal men in tag matches but I don't like seeing pins and submissions get broken up constantly. Edits using the R trigger to "cut off the ring" often allows their team to use ring placement as strategy which plays into the psychology of the match. But it doesn't stop the action after an edit kicks out of the pin or fights out of a submission. So you still get some fun 2 on 2 action but not at the cost of matches going too long when a legitimate pin/sub situation is broken up. |
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gbm
JIM MINY
Posts: 76
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Post by gbm on Oct 3, 2018 12:43:02 GMT
This has been a huge help with me and constructing tag matches. Setting the drag usage alone cut my tag matches by about 10 min (game time). If you haven't set this up I would definitely recommend it. Awesome! I'm really glad to hear that the suggestion helped!! 😃 I like seeing a lot of action from the non-legal men in tag matches but I don't like seeing pins and submissions get broken up constantly. Edits using the R trigger to "cut off the ring" often allows their team to use ring placement as strategy which plays into the psychology of the match. But it doesn't stop the action after an edit kicks out of the pin or fights out of a submission. So you still get some fun 2 on 2 action but not at the cost of matches going too long when a legitimate pin/sub situation is broken up. Sounds like something I'm interested in doing. Can you elaborate a bit more on how you actually modify the logic to allow this to happen? It has to do with the front facelock, right? |
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Post by OrochiGeese on Oct 3, 2018 20:30:11 GMT
Awesome! I'm really glad to hear that the suggestion helped!! 😃 I like seeing a lot of action from the non-legal men in tag matches but I don't like seeing pins and submissions get broken up constantly. Edits using the R trigger to "cut off the ring" often allows their team to use ring placement as strategy which plays into the psychology of the match. But it doesn't stop the action after an edit kicks out of the pin or fights out of a submission. So you still get some fun 2 on 2 action but not at the cost of matches going too long when a legitimate pin/sub situation is broken up. Sounds like something I'm interested in doing. Can you elaborate a bit more on how you actually modify the logic to allow this to happen? It has to do with the front facelock, right? Yeah, it's entirely related to "R Trigger" usage in front grapple for each member of the tag team. Here's the earlier post in this thread giving more detail as to how I set up my tag edits. R Trigger usage at approximately 10% at Large Damage is good with high cooperation. I say approximately 10% cause you don't want to disrupt the logic balance of your other moves in that category so really anywhere from 8-12% is fine for R trigger usage at Large Damage. You can have it lower for Medium Damage cause you aren't going to have any pinfalls attempts that have a legitimate chance of working (and successful submissions at that point are rare). You still want some R trigger usage (5-8% is probably fine) for Medium Damage for increased chance of teamwork moves but you are using it offensively here (to set up more double teams) in the middle part of the match more than offensively and defensively (cutting off the ring to prevent pinfall/submission attempts being broken) in late match. And higher cooperation means a greater chance that your partner will come into the ring to help you AND be more willing to perform double team moves (like getting on the post for the Doomsday Device Setup or coming into the ring when the legal man holds the opponent from behind). These are the settings that have been effective in my tag team matches having the type of flow that I like. You'll still get some pins and submissions toward the center of the ring (or closer to the opponent's corner due to their R-Trigger usage) but overall there will be more strategic placement of big moves and finish attempts. Hope this helped! 😎 |
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gbm
JIM MINY
Posts: 76
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Post by gbm on Oct 3, 2018 23:43:01 GMT
Sounds like something I'm interested in doing. Can you elaborate a bit more on how you actually modify the logic to allow this to happen? It has to do with the front facelock, right? Yeah, it's entirely related to "R Trigger" usage in front grapple for each member of the tag team. Here's the earlier post in this thread giving more detail as to how I set up my tag edits. R Trigger usage at approximately 10% at Large Damage is good with high cooperation. I say approximately 10% cause you don't want to disrupt the logic balance of your other moves in that category so really anywhere from 8-12% is fine for R trigger usage at Large Damage. You can have it lower for Medium Damage cause you aren't going to have any pinfalls attempts that have a legitimate chance of working (and successful submissions at that point are rare). You still want some R trigger usage (5-8% is probably fine) for Medium Damage for increased chance of teamwork moves but you are using it offensively here (to set up more double teams) in the middle part of the match more than offensively and defensively (cutting off the ring to prevent pinfall/submission attempts being broken) in late match. And higher cooperation means a greater chance that your partner will come into the ring to help you AND be more willing to perform double team moves (like getting on the post for the Doomsday Device Setup or coming into the ring when the legal man holds the opponent from behind). These are the settings that have been effective in my tag team matches having the type of flow that I like. You'll still get some pins and submissions toward the center of the ring (or closer to the opponent's corner due to their R-Trigger usage) but overall there will be more strategic placement of big moves and finish attempts. Hope this helped! 😎 Amazing. Thank you for the in depth explanation. I'm off to try it now. So in the logic screen under initiate grapple ....is the r trigger called "grapple 3d / front headlock?" |
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Oct 4, 2018 0:14:01 GMT
Yeah, it's entirely related to "R Trigger" usage in front grapple for each member of the tag team. Here's the earlier post in this thread giving more detail as to how I set up my tag edits. R Trigger usage at approximately 10% at Large Damage is good with high cooperation. I say approximately 10% cause you don't want to disrupt the logic balance of your other moves in that category so really anywhere from 8-12% is fine for R trigger usage at Large Damage. You can have it lower for Medium Damage cause you aren't going to have any pinfalls attempts that have a legitimate chance of working (and successful submissions at that point are rare). You still want some R trigger usage (5-8% is probably fine) for Medium Damage for increased chance of teamwork moves but you are using it offensively here (to set up more double teams) in the middle part of the match more than offensively and defensively (cutting off the ring to prevent pinfall/submission attempts being broken) in late match. And higher cooperation means a greater chance that your partner will come into the ring to help you AND be more willing to perform double team moves (like getting on the post for the Doomsday Device Setup or coming into the ring when the legal man holds the opponent from behind). These are the settings that have been effective in my tag team matches having the type of flow that I like. You'll still get some pins and submissions toward the center of the ring (or closer to the opponent's corner due to their R-Trigger usage) but overall there will be more strategic placement of big moves and finish attempts. Hope this helped! 😎 Amazing. Thank you for the in depth explanation. I'm off to try it now. So in the logic screen under initiate grapple ....is the r trigger called "grapple 3d / front headlock?" Yes |
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Post by OrochiGeese on Oct 4, 2018 3:37:02 GMT
Amazing. Thank you for the in depth explanation. I'm off to try it now. So in the logic screen under initiate grapple ....is the r trigger called "grapple 3d / front headlock?" You are very welcome! 👍 I hope that it works for you. If you aren't seeing the edits doing the front headlock enough, you can always just increase it a little. Like every other move in CPU logic, the % is just kind of a loose target. So look for overall trends in a number of matches (5-10) before you change things from match to match. And yeah, it's the "Grapple 3D/Front Headlock" move. Incidentally, that move always is useful for high-flying wrestlers because it drags the opponent closer to the corner if the edit has a discretion that is less than 66 but higher than 30. In tag matches though, it's the cooperation setting that controls the positioning of the front headlock. As long as cooperation is higher than 33, the edit will drag the opponent to the corner with the headlock. |
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gbm
JIM MINY
Posts: 76
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Post by gbm on Oct 4, 2018 12:50:47 GMT
Does anyone know the threshold values for "cooperation?"
In other words, the cut off point to where partners do and do not interact?
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Post by fullMETAL on Oct 4, 2018 22:19:27 GMT
The majority of my tag sims (cheap plug: remember, I'm running a whole set of shows SPECIFICALLY dedicated to tag matches) using the 3 official refs (Warena-chan, Alina Fyproe w/Optimal stats, Crit-chan for round 2) actually end in Submissions, and the ones that end in pinfall always do so because the victim is in the attacker's corner, which prevents the partner from getting there on time.
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