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Post by sofia on Jan 18, 2019 3:52:25 GMT
this is some hardcore lack of self awareness here How so? He's currently sitting at 77 subs, the majority of which definitely come from the average joe Fire Pro player who probably thought, "hey, cool! An Ugandan Knuckles edit! *hits subscribe*" I know where my base lies. Average joes/casuals. And it is my duty to show them da wae. ... okay but, the reason I said that is that you seem to be leveraging people's annoyance with the edit's existence as a way of hyping yourself up as like, "the most dangerous CAW maker in wrestling games today!" and it just gives me vibes of all those guys who tried to ride on having shitty reputations in the past, lol. People who would call themselves "the most dangerous artist on the Internet" and such. XD
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Ripley
Steel Johnson
Posts: 198
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Post by Ripley on Jan 18, 2019 4:35:26 GMT
Also let's talk about the fact that you're making an edit based off of a blatantly racist, shitty (and on a much less problematic level: outdated) meme. So like... maybe don't do that.
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Post by Professor Voodoo on Jan 18, 2019 6:04:41 GMT
I have stated both the positive (subscriber count) and negative (hardcore fans hate it for varying reasons), which are both factual.
And with all due respect, 77 subscribers. Most of them, just ordinary people who wanna sim or play a few matches, and do what they gotta do. Those people that just click, looking around for edits they find cool. And sometimes that happens to be a popular or resurging character or trend.
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Jan 18, 2019 6:13:23 GMT
I have stated both the positive (subscriber count) and negative (hardcore fans hate it for varying reasons), which are both factual. And with all due respect, 77 subscribers. Most of them, just ordinary people who wanna sim or play a few matches, and do what they gotta do. Those people that just click, looking around for edits they find cool. And sometimes that happens to be a popular or resurging character or trend. "Hardcore people hate it." No dude. Its racist. Racist people like it, the rest of us are bothered by it.
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Post by Professor Voodoo on Jan 18, 2019 6:31:43 GMT
Look, if you wanna ask more about this character and why I am doing this, my stream is open whenever, why not come talk sometime?
Otherwise, this back-and forth text posting will not end well for any of us.
I will be posting more edits here eventually.
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Post by sofia on Jan 18, 2019 7:04:03 GMT
I have stated both the positive (subscriber count) and negative (hardcore fans hate it for varying reasons), which are both factual. And with all due respect, 77 subscribers. Most of them, just ordinary people who wanna sim or play a few matches, and do what they gotta do. Those people that just click, looking around for edits they find cool. And sometimes that happens to be a popular or resurging character or trend.
"Hardcore fans hate it for varying reasons" is a very roundabout way of saying what LankyLefty17 said. I'm of the opinion that the meme was racist in the way that a lot of things idiot white teenagers do is racist - it's ignorant of other races, nationalities, and cultures, mainly because it transformed from a silly homage to the commentary track on the wonderfully cheesy and awesome Wakaliwood movie "Who Killed Captain Alex" to a way of going, "lol, all Africans click their tongues, they're so zany and exotic! ha ha eatin' da poo-poo!" I'm not as vehemently against it as others but for you to go, "Oh, it's just the hardcore fans having a problem with my goofy irreverence!" is, uh, not quite accurate.
Anyway, I really... REALLY hate turning this into a popularity contest, but going "I have 77 subscribers to JUST THIS EDIT" absolutely reeks of an ego running unchecked, and of a solipsistic view on your surroundings. It's probably unfair to compare idiotic meme edits to RL ones, but there are people on this site with 10 times that many ... or 100 times that many ... or more than that, myself included. Getting a big head over 77 subscribers to an edit made as a dedication to one of the worst memes of the interminably long year that was 2018 strikes me as kind of fucking sad.
I can't say that I don't get some ego boost out of seeing I have popular edits on the Workshop and FPW NET, but at the same time that little confidence boost I get from it isn't as all-consuming as it seems to be with you and your edits. The fact that you try and paint it and yourself as some "love it or hate it" super celebrity of this tiny little fandom is a real eye roller. You've given yourself far too much importance than you actually have, which is why you've grown so desperate for an ego fix that you've started putting on this act on this forum instead of merely the Discord and your twitch stream.
please cut it out, thanks.
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Post by Professor Voodoo on Jan 18, 2019 7:35:12 GMT
Like I said, if you wanna know more about Ugandan Knuckles, and moreso exactly why I am seriously focusing on this particular edit to this degree, I will be more than glad to speak with you, and everyone else.
But for a quickie answer regarding numbers, you think I value Ugandan Knuckles as my highest count edit? If I wanted to argue pure count alone, I'd go for Heihachi or Mileena in a heartbeat.
The point is, those many people who subscribed to my edits are the ones I should be focusing on, not this particular sect of this fandom alone, or even primarily.
Going forward, I'm taking a far more casual-friendly approach with all my stuff, period. I made a couple errors in 2018 and I gotta bounce back. It's 2019, and I gotta start strong.
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Post by sofia on Jan 18, 2019 7:49:44 GMT
Like I said, if you wanna know more about Ugandan Knuckles, and moreso exactly why I am seriously focusing on this particular edit to this degree, I will be more than glad to speak with you, and everyone else. But for a quickie answer regarding numbers, you think I value Ugandan Knuckles as my highest count edit? If I wanted to argue pure count alone, I'd go for Heihachi or Mileena in a heartbeat. The point is, those many people who subscribed to my edits are the ones I should be focusing on, not this particular sect of this fandom alone, or even primarily. Going forward, I'm taking a far more casual-friendly approach with all my stuff, period. I made a couple errors in 2018 and I gotta bounce back. It's 2019, and I gotta start strong.
I think it's transparently obvious why you're fixated on him, and I already stated it like 2 or 3 times over. I don't need to humor your need for attention by going on your twitch stream to get that explanation as to why you're bound and determined to make Ugandan Knuckles popular again like Randal trying to "take back" a racial slur in Clerks 2.
So, like, a casual-friendly approach to Firepro - ignoring the fact that there's no casuals left in the fandom - would be to work on RL edits. Just like I said. Your casual wrestling game player is interested in getting accurate-enough versions of the big names of the Fed and elsewhere to add to their rosters, not fucking Ugandan Knuckles or a sentient Tide Pod or Big Chungus or whatever other ephemeral memes you can think of. You want to appeal to the people on the Steam forums? There's how you do it.
But if that's how you feel about this aspect of the community, that it's not what you should be appealing to -- why bother posting here, if not to try and get another hit of whatever chemical gives narcissists a high? Be it from being praised, or from being the misunderstood pariah.
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Post by DM_PSX on Jan 18, 2019 8:15:39 GMT
Wow. This is really shitty. There is no excuse you can make, or mental gymnastics that changes what this is. People try to be covert about they spread hate because they can't say things directly anymore, and that's why we have things like this. This isn't about casuals. You're spreading a hate symbol. That's the beginning, middle, and end of this situation. There's no other angles at play here.
And when people get called on it, they always say the same things.
"oh you just don't get it..." "I'm not doing what it seems..." "We need to talk about it private because I don't want to get called out in public..."
:-/
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Post by Professor Voodoo on Jan 18, 2019 8:30:14 GMT
I have no further reason to explain via text, (except for the fact that spitting on the foe, and swarming/annoying them is an integral part of the character, which is why he's a heel in my game) about Ugandan Knuckles, when it will inevitably just devolve back and forth into a giant wall of text that benefits nobody, and will just make everyone unhappier in the long run. I'd much rather speak about this, to everyone, as a person, than type about this, as a user. Second, my Mortal Kombat and Tekken edits, among other fictional (and real life) edits, are my real meat and potatoes (favorite OCs excluded), the thing that brings the casuals coming for more. "I wanna see Scorpion fight Bowser in a fire ring! I wanna see The Angry Video Game Nerd slug it out, blow for blow!" That's the kinda audience I have been neglecting. As for why I bother, I dunno. Part of me feels that maybe, just maybe, people here actually enjoy the OCs I make, maybe, just maybe, people enjoy kicking back and watching I dunno, Liam Llusco's rabid anti-smark behavior and leg breaking antics, or maybe Vic Gangrenous's sheer Nasty Boys-esque brutality, or maybe Andrea Wu's chickenwing wrestling style is more their speed. I have quite a lot of OCs, which have been made with this sect's basic philosophies in mine, in the short time I have been around. And I'd love to say, hey, I have you all covered. A style for everyone, you name it, I have it. But it's like at some point, should I even bother when that gets little to no reaction and my best OC edits get mixed reactions at best? I mean it's definitely not stopping me from churning out the OCs, but maybe you have a point. In any case, if any of you wanna continue talking about this particular (my speech, not the Ugandan Knuckles edit) wall of text, please feel free to DM me. But for now, I'd like to steer this back into the direction it's supposed to be headed, that being edit advertisement. Now this edit is fairly recent, but is already a favorite of mine, Mizuki Mizuno. steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1593890022
Does anyone have anything to say about this edit?
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Ripley
Steel Johnson
Posts: 198
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Post by Ripley on Jan 21, 2019 14:35:14 GMT
I don't give a FLYING FUCK about your justification for why or how you made an edit. How he's a heel and how you've tweaked logic to have him "spit" on other edits. It doesn't fucking matter. You made at best an outdated, sophomoric meme edit that has racist connotations. At worst, you just made a downright racist edit. I don't care how well you made it. In fact that fact that you tried to play up to the character's tendency to "swarm and spit" makes the edit, and you, all the more fucking ridiculous and deplorable.
There is no getting around this. There is no talking about justification behind it. It's shitty. It's disgusting.
This whole edgy "OOH LOOK AT MY SUBSCRIBER COUNT! OOOH I'M JUST MAKING THE HARD EDITS NO ONE ELSE WILL MAKE! LOOKIT ME!" horse shit is so tired and so played out. To the point that I don't even care anymore. You can go have your little pity parties about how no one gets you and how we're all assholes all you want. What I do care about is when you make a blatantly racist and shitty edit and try to pass it off as A) anything but that and B) have the fucking gall to try to back it all up with some stupid-ass justification for it being "for the casuals" or C) about how it's such a well-made edit because you adhered to the "character."
I don't give a fuck. It's racist. End of discussion. Don't fucking make racist edits if you don't want to be called a racist. And no, this shouldn't be taken to your streams or to DMs. When you do some downright racist shit you deserve to get called out on it. In public. Because you made that RACIST EDIT available to the public. You wanna be edgy and make some dumb-assed racist edits? Then you've gotta live with the consequences of being called out for making some dumb-assed racist edits. If you can't deal with that THEN MAYBE DON'T MAKE AN EDIT BASED OFF OF A RACIST AS FUCK MEME. MAYBE THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.
I know I'm going off the deep end here but fuck me man Jesus Christ. It's 2019. It was 2018 when you made this edit and 2019 ain't getting any better. We've got shit like that fucking rich-ass MAGA chud going around against Nathan Phillips yesterday and yes in the grand scheme of things an edit based off of a shitty, outdated meme seems like the least of our problems but you ought to be better than this.
The attitude you've had over... well, since I've known you has been that of "I MAKE THE POPULIST EDITS!"/"I MAKE THE EDITS FOR THE CASUALS!" which as Maikeru pointed out is a pretty fucking ridiculous thing to say at this point in the game's lifespan because A) there were barely any casuals to begin with and B) there definitely aren't any now.
Also your whole woe is me attitude of "NO ONE LIKES MY ORIGINAL CHARACTERS SO I HAVE TO DEBASE MYSELF AND MAKE THESE FICTIONAL EDITS FOR THE SUBS!" is so played out and tired and literally no one cares. People have actual problems to worry about. You don't like making fictional characters? Then stop. You care so much about your subscriber count? Good for you. Literally no one else does.
What it boils down to is this: your dumb ass made a stupid as fuck, RACIST AS FUCK edit for the sake of "the casuals", for the sake of popularity. And now you're getting called out on being a dumbass. And rather than owning up to it you're trying to A) justify why you did it (fucking terribly I might add), B) deflect the conversation), and C) pass it off as though it's no big deal or isn't somehow racist in the first place.
I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and just say "Ah, he's just a dumbass." But then again that kind of attitude spawns fucking idiot kids like that privileged MAGA asshole who gets away with it because "teens will be teens" and then eventually when he's old it's "Ah, he's from a different generation, he doesn't get it." And it excuses at best casual, shitty, problematic racism, and at worst it excuses downright abhorrent behaviour. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now but if you don't see how fucking problematic this edit is and how equally problematic your complete disregard for people's criticisms and your attempts to just sweep it under the rug are...
Well, we're gonna have a fucking problem here, my guy.
And for the sake of the mods I've said my piece here. Nothing else needs to be said from me.
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Post by Professor Voodoo on Jan 21, 2019 21:49:28 GMT
Everybody here outright ignored the Mizuki Mizuno edit and gave a reaction to the Ugandan Knuckles one. And people wonder why I focused on that one for a while...hmm...
When it comes to this fandom, who I'm struggling to gauge to this day, I'm just pushing what gets the reaction.
Nobody here had ever reacted, positively, or negatively, to any of my edits on the scale of Ugandan Knuckles.
Vic Gangrenous, no reaction. Andrea Wu. No reaction. Liam Llusco. No reaction. Jimiyu Wahu. (Who is very much meant to be a positive African character, with little/no stereotyping to speak of, unless fishing is considered a Kenyan stereotype) No reaction, aside from Sen. Mizuki Mizuno. No reaction. And I could go on and on, but these were edits (except maybe Mizuno but she counts still) intended for CiC use, for the fandom (and myself) to enjoy, and it's a bloody shame it went nowhere on the fandom front.
I had made this edit with full intention of forgetting it, (I was on a mini meme rush after creating Fortran, who I favored more) and moving on to the next one. But the fandom negatively reacted to it, and brought salt in the wound by bringing it up again, thus "inspiring" me to work on it more. Will I work on it again? Depends. Are you guys gonna keep reacting to it, or do the same thing y'all do with my more inspired and beloved edits and bury it?
Y'all ignore good shit, angrily react to a meme edit, get even angrier when said editor is like "oh, they're actually reacting to something. Maybe I can make bank off this." Something makes me question if this fandom wants to see me fail....and yet I STILL stick my nose out and make OCs for y'all. They don't get any reaction, love or hate, but I still make em....I wonder if y'all deliberately choose to ignore good edits, focus on the shit that would make y'all mad, and decide to get collectively angry over it.
Also to DM_PSX, you really don't have much say in this if what Will said about your edits was true. About the only thing I'll give you is the "hate speech" comment, because this edit is very much fueled by fandom hate.
In short, I don't know what to do with this fandom right now, and I think it's best this thread is locked.
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Ripley
Steel Johnson
Posts: 198
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Post by Ripley on Jan 21, 2019 23:03:54 GMT
You know what really rubs the salt in a wound? A white dude making an edit based on a racist as fuck meme. That really rubs the proverbial salt in the wound of literal hundreds of years of racism and systemic oppression towards black people.
You don't get to play the "woe is me" card whatsoever when you made a racist as fuck edit. You just don't.
How about you just DON'T work on this edit? How about you own up to your dumb-assed mistake instead of doubling down on the victim card? How about that?
Don't "push to get reactions." Make work you like first and foremost. And like Maikeru said, stop with this stupid edgelord narcissistic bullshit of "OH I JUST CREATE THE EDITS NO ONE ELSE WILL. I JUST CREATE EDITS TO GET A REACTION. OOOOH."
This is WAY BEYOND making good or bad edits. This is you making a downright fucking racist edit. That's what it is. Again, stop playing the FUCKING VICTIM WHEN THERE ARE LITERAL VICTIMS YOU ARE MAKING FUN OF BY MAKING THIS STUPID-ASSED, RACIST AS FUCK EDIT. If you cannot get it through your thick fucking skull how problematic and shitty that edit is then there is really no hope for you.
You don't get to drum up your tired-ass "woe is me" victim mentality when we're talking about an edit based on a racist meme. Literally all you have to do is apologize for a lapse in judgement rather than doubling down on your victim mentality and the entire thing can be moved on from. It's really not that hard.
Also with regards to DM, whatever issue I may have with him (which I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to?) is an issue that can be discussed by me and him either A) in a PM or in his own thread. Once again: you're lashing out, looking for any way whatsoever to deflect the discussion rather than just owning up to your fuck-up.
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Post by Professor Voodoo on Jan 21, 2019 23:13:46 GMT
I don't think this fandom realizes their part in the edit's making.
Y'all want me to apologize for making a meme edit, and then giving it more attention and love (ironic, given it's a "racist hate symbol") because of being reminded of it by a hostile fandom/casual fans clicking download....
Naw, at this point, I'm even MORE unrepentant over what has been done, because the sheer hatred this fandom has put into this edit is far more than any sort of love (or even hate, because EL33T never got it this rough) I have got for any of my edits here. And I'm a bloody moron if I don't capitalize on that.
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Post by Brick9mm on Jan 21, 2019 23:37:29 GMT
The takeaway from Ugandan Knuckles's "heat" isn't "whoa I need to capitalize on this despite everyone continuing to yell at me", it's nothing besides "Ok I'll stop." No one should die on the hill for UGANDAN KNUCKLES of all things. This isn't "getting that heel heat" it's making someone people have good reasons to dislike, saying "yeah don't do that" then you backing off then periodically revisiting the "heat", being an edgier and edgier dumbass each time.
Ultimately it's all borne from your very delusional perspective. Fire Pro means nothing. Your edits mean nothing (especially if you release so many of them people couldn't name a single OC besides the ones you forced for 5 minutes like 8 months ago). My edits mean nothing! None of this means remotely anything in the grand scheme of things, it's just Fire Pro! It's especially not a case where one should take their other edits' lack of popularity as their GRAND TALENT being overlooked, especially when a certain fantastic edit maker has minimal subs merely because of their lack of real exposure. That's just how it is in this community, it's not a big thing.
There's a few ways to "succeed" in this community. Take part in things, gain a reputation as a friendly guy, most importantly of all don't see "getting over in the fire pro community" as a mission that needs to be accomplished. Never expect the response to your work to equal the effort put into it, especially if you make an Olympic sport out of mentally dodging the potentially very true fact that YOU are the problem.
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