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Post by OrochiGeese on Jul 20, 2020 7:09:05 GMT
It's entirely possible that there's a mechanic that provides a greater likelihood of winning under specific conditions, like being immensely more damaged than the opponent. I do feel like, around the time a guy gets his Ukemi boost, he seems to win the next several grapples at least, although that's fairly anecdotal on my part. A mechanic like that would explain some of these findings, though. It shouldn't be able to overtly change the timing each edit can use - that's governed by one value that applies to the whole match; it's why you can't actually set guys to different difficulties, or set aspects like grapple timing or submission escaping to different levels, even with modding. But it might be able to enforce a slight delay on the opponent when grappling, which I think is how Carl's "jobber" feature (the part that makes them unlikely to win grapples, anyway) works now. Or there could be another undiscovered mechanic at play. I don't know offhand how one would go about circumventing such a mechanic using in-game methods, though. This is why I'm still haunted by those Spike Twitch chats the first year or so after FPW came out. There were so many engine questions I had that just didn't get the detailed answers I wanted. I give Spike credit for at least acknowledging some of them but I really wanted to learn more about the system mechanics of grappling and things like that. I still believe there are some undiscovered mechanics with grappling. And while I'm not one that's capable of looking into the engine to provide any proof of my own anecdotal observations, I've seen things that just kind of defy probability when it comes to who wins grapples. I know that even with 50% odds you can see "tails" come up on a coin for many a flip, but I've seen too many matches with guys losing grapples and being dropped on their heads for 5+ minutes straight without interruption 😁 |
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Post by October Raven on Jul 20, 2020 9:39:15 GMT
Nah, it's none of that guys. Based on my observations, it's that the engine wants parity in damage. If someone gets to Near Death super early, the game wants them to be able to come back.
And if all they use are moves that don't damage the opponent, only damages them, they'll NEVER get that comeback. Thus, 60 minutes of jobber forearm.
But, that doesn't mean moves designed for jobbers aren't viable. Just need to be done differently; that is, they don't only do self damage; they do equal damage to self and opponent. It's getting promising results, but I'm doing some extensive work to get it just right.
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Post by October Raven on Jul 21, 2020 23:30:34 GMT
GENTLEMEN, BEHOLD
"Boku wa mou shinderu" "NANIIIIIIII?"
A move that does 30 stamina to spirit to self.... and 100 stamina and spirit to the defender.
The result, the non-jobber does a 'comeback', dominating more offense, and eventually getting an early win.
I did a lot more testing of this, with multiple edits. All fell within 2-8 minutes, with 4-6 min being the norm.
This is with Ukemi at 100%. I know it's counterintuitive to those that know how Ukemi works, but that's why self-damage is as almost as much as a Burning Hammer. With Ukemi at 0, you'll get slightly shorter matches, but you also have the possibility of the jobber reversing with a pinning move, and with the amount of damage they are doing to the non-jobber, they have a good chance of winning.
And thanks to the Fist of the Job Star, I was able to craft a better jobber move:
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