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Post by OrochiGeese on Apr 5, 2019 8:00:33 GMT
Just to add to Twist's great advice: Would someone be able help me tweak Cody to put more consistently put on good matches? Sure thing, I just looked through the edits logic and thought there were some issues, and I hope this will help you iron things out. First things first, I feel this should be an early match move, a mid match move, or a late match move. Not all 3. This also goes for the DDT. I've tried to give DDT's and Powerbomb's their original status as being bigger moves so personally I'd recommend keeping both of those in late match. Exception being a DDT that is sorta low (5-6%) in middle match as a "momentum changer" type of move. But yeah, I wouldn't put those two moves in all 3 categories, especially not early match. For prios that lead to pins, it should be 100%, unless it is safety netted into another spot. I would say make powerbomb whip either a mid match move or a late match move, and make the pin 100%. The rest of the pin % prios should also become 100. (I would also have cody pin after DDTs and put it only in med) I think a powerbomb whip is the type of move that should either lead directly into a pin or maybe a pin in some cases and a submission in others. I'd keep it in late match as well. I think pinning after a DDT in medium is really good as a momentum changer but not pinning in late damage is fine since you don't want to see him actually win with a move he does regularly (or really at all) in medium damage. It's anticlimactic. Do not put your main front finish in medium, large only. Agreed. And I'd drop the % for that move too. 12% for a front grapple finish is really high. Like twice as high as I'd generally make it. Depending on what the other moves are, I'd put that move somewhere between 5 and 8% and then test it over like 5-10 matches and see how early and often it comes out.
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Post by faulknasty on Apr 5, 2019 9:22:24 GMT
Agreed. And I'd drop the % for that move too. 12% for a front grapple finish is really high. Like twice as high as I'd generally make it. Depending on what the other moves are, I'd put that move somewhere between 5 and 8% and then test it over like 5-10 matches and see how early and often it comes out. Ok I have a question about this then and goes for a new edit I'm working on now. Where do I put the percentages for the front grapple then? Especially in the late column. I just don't really know how to balance them out across the board here
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Post by TwistC on Apr 5, 2019 15:08:52 GMT
Just to add to Twist's great advice: Sure thing, I just looked through the edits logic and thought there were some issues, and I hope this will help you iron things out. First things first, I feel this should be an early match move, a mid match move, or a late match move. Not all 3. This also goes for the DDT. I've tried to give DDT's and Powerbomb's their original status as being bigger moves so personally I'd recommend keeping both of those in late match. Exception being a DDT that is sorta low (5-6%) in middle match as a "momentum changer" type of move. But yeah, I wouldn't put those two moves in all 3 categories, especially not early match. For prios that lead to pins, it should be 100%, unless it is safety netted into another spot. I would say make powerbomb whip either a mid match move or a late match move, and make the pin 100%. The rest of the pin % prios should also become 100. (I would also have cody pin after DDTs and put it only in med) I think a powerbomb whip is the type of move that should either lead directly into a pin or maybe a pin in some cases and a submission in others. I'd keep it in late match as well. I think pinning after a DDT in medium is really good as a momentum changer but not pinning in late damage is fine since you don't want to see him actually win with a move he does regularly (or really at all) in medium damage. It's anticlimactic. Do not put your main front finish in medium, large only. Agreed. And I'd drop the % for that move too. 12% for a front grapple finish is really high. Like twice as high as I'd generally make it. Depending on what the other moves are, I'd put that move somewhere between 5 and 8% and then test it over like 5-10 matches and see how early and often it comes out. 12% can work if your edit is a longer match style, and takes a good bit to get to large. If your edit is, say, a 1 offense 10 defense edit, or a param spread like that, you can afford to have high finisher %s in large (which is something I like doing because it allows you to control the length of the matches much easier in my experience).
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Post by TwistC on Apr 5, 2019 15:13:50 GMT
Are there any spots left? I wasn't 100% sure from the previous posts. I would submit Kazuo Saji if there are but no worries, I can always submit him for a future show. Theres 1 singles match left and 1 tag team match left, so if you want to have a match with another edit creator, you can. Just be sure to get their consent of course
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Post by Love Wilcox on Apr 5, 2019 15:38:14 GMT
I’d be more than happy to put forth Chad Fukushima & Gunner Wilcox for either a singles match for one of them OR a tag match as “The Big Gunz” if anyone is interested or in need of a matchup. However I’m easy, so if plans are already in motion to fill the remaining spots then that’s fine and I’ll sit this one out. I just wanted to put it out there for anyone who might be struggling to find an opponent(s). :) Chad: steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=973989056Gunner: steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1198244512Also, I can’t record shit because my laptop is ancient xD
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Post by TwistC on Apr 5, 2019 16:35:57 GMT
!!! ATTENTION !!!we have finally created the ring for Critical Club Presents: Critical Edge. We encourage you to use this ring for your self recorded matches, but it is not mandatory, because as the great founder of Social Justice Wrestling once said; "It is unamerican to censor art".
Mat (credit to TwistC and Will) Apron (credit to Princess Pepperoni) Corner Mat (credit to Princess Pepperoni)
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Post by TwistC on Apr 5, 2019 18:35:04 GMT
Are there any spots left? I wasn't 100% sure from the previous posts. I would submit Kazuo Saji if there are but no worries, I can always submit him for a future show. I’d be more than happy to put forth Chad Fukushima & Gunner Wilcox for either a singles match for one of them OR a tag match as “The Big Gunz” if anyone is interested or in need of a matchup. However I’m easy, so if plans are already in motion to fill the remaining spots then that’s fine and I’ll sit this one out. I just wanted to put it out there for anyone who might be struggling to find an opponent(s). :) Chad: steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=973989056Gunner: steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1198244512Also, I can’t record shit because my laptop is ancient xD Why don't you 2 do a singles match? Sounds like a good solution to me.
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Post by faulknasty on Apr 5, 2019 18:57:40 GMT
Just to add to Twist's great advice: I've tried to give DDT's and Powerbomb's their original status as being bigger moves so personally I'd recommend keeping both of those in late match. Exception being a DDT that is sorta low (5-6%) in middle match as a "momentum changer" type of move. But yeah, I wouldn't put those two moves in all 3 categories, especially not early match. I think a powerbomb whip is the type of move that should either lead directly into a pin or maybe a pin in some cases and a submission in others. I'd keep it in late match as well. I think pinning after a DDT in medium is really good as a momentum changer but not pinning in late damage is fine since you don't want to see him actually win with a move he does regularly (or really at all) in medium damage. It's anticlimactic. Agreed. And I'd drop the % for that move too. 12% for a front grapple finish is really high. Like twice as high as I'd generally make it. Depending on what the other moves are, I'd put that move somewhere between 5 and 8% and then test it over like 5-10 matches and see how early and often it comes out. 12% can work if your edit is a longer match style, and takes a good bit to get to large. If your edit is, say, a 1 offense 10 defense edit, or a param spread like that, you can afford to have high finisher %s in large (which is something I like doing because it allows you to control the length of the matches much easier in my experience). Is their a detailed guide on doing percentages? I always refer the denizon guide but I need a better understanding on how to balance out all three damages levels. Because as I said in my last post I'm working on a new edit and I just don't know what moves to put the percentages. Also I think I need to change out the powerbomb whip because it's only I'm there because I forgot.
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Post by sofia on Apr 5, 2019 19:30:02 GMT
There's no real "guide" exactly, but generally people set their front finisher to anywhere from 5% to 8% or so. That's not necessarily something you absolutely must follow, but if you're using offensive parameters as a gauge of how good someone is at a particular category of moves, it's one way of trying to limit how often it is used.
If you instead view the params as ways to tweak the pacing of a match - lower offense for longer matches, higher offense for shorter - then you can work from there. If all the striking moves do less damage, for instance, through a combination of setting punch/kick offense low and/or the opponent's defenses being higher, and you use those extensively early on in a match, then that early phase will go on for longer and give the match more time to build up to large.
It's a lot easier to regulate ground and back grapple finishers imo. You can just set a ground sub as a priority, or if it's something like the Regal Stretch or Omoplata Crossface, you can forego the prios entirely and just be judicious in your move selection to limit the amount of moves that potentially lead to a face down state. Back grapple finishers can be limited simply by using more ground strikes/eliminating critical damage pickups altogether, turning down back grapple to 0% when an opponent is dazed at large damage, and instead using a move that stuns the opponent - like the Ibushi or KENTA rush, or any of the B-type striking moves - to get the groggy state that'd lead to a back grapple. That way, you can usually get a move that kills on the first or second use.
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Post by faulknasty on Apr 5, 2019 20:07:49 GMT
There's no real "guide" exactly, but generally people set their front finisher to anywhere from 5% to 8% or so. That's not necessarily something you absolutely must follow, but if you're using offensive parameters as a gauge of how good someone is at a particular category of moves, it's one way of trying to limit how often it is used. If you instead view the params as ways to tweak the pacing of a match - lower offense for longer matches, higher offense for shorter - then you can work from there. If all the striking moves do less damage, for instance, through a combination of setting punch/kick offense low and/or the opponent's defenses being higher, and you use those extensively early on in a match, then that early phase will go on for longer and give the match more time to build up to large. It's a lot easier to regulate ground and back grapple finishers imo. You can just set a ground sub as a priority, or if it's something like the Regal Stretch or Omoplata Crossface, you can forego the prios entirely and just be judicious in your move selection to limit the amount of moves that potentially lead to a face down state. Back grapple finishers can be limited simply by using more ground strikes/eliminating critical damage pickups altogether, turning down back grapple to 0% when an opponent is dazed at large damage, and instead using a move that stuns the opponent - like the Ibushi or KENTA rush, or any of the B-type striking moves - to get the groggy state that'd lead to a back grapple. That way, you can usually get a move that kills on the first or second use. So for the other 92% should I put that in smaller moves and one other big move?
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Ripley
Steel Johnson
Posts: 198
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Post by Ripley on Apr 5, 2019 20:19:44 GMT
There's no real "guide" exactly, but generally people set their front finisher to anywhere from 5% to 8% or so. That's not necessarily something you absolutely must follow, but if you're using offensive parameters as a gauge of how good someone is at a particular category of moves, it's one way of trying to limit how often it is used. If you instead view the params as ways to tweak the pacing of a match - lower offense for longer matches, higher offense for shorter - then you can work from there. If all the striking moves do less damage, for instance, through a combination of setting punch/kick offense low and/or the opponent's defenses being higher, and you use those extensively early on in a match, then that early phase will go on for longer and give the match more time to build up to large. It's a lot easier to regulate ground and back grapple finishers imo. You can just set a ground sub as a priority, or if it's something like the Regal Stretch or Omoplata Crossface, you can forego the prios entirely and just be judicious in your move selection to limit the amount of moves that potentially lead to a face down state. Back grapple finishers can be limited simply by using more ground strikes/eliminating critical damage pickups altogether, turning down back grapple to 0% when an opponent is dazed at large damage, and instead using a move that stuns the opponent - like the Ibushi or KENTA rush, or any of the B-type striking moves - to get the groggy state that'd lead to a back grapple. That way, you can usually get a move that kills on the first or second use. So for the other 92% should I put that in smaller moves and one other big move? Here's the thing, my dude: You actually have 100% PER CATEGORY. So you have 100% to spread between small, medium, and large categories for your front grapples. For argument's sake let's say you have 20% dedicated to Irish Whips and 10% for Face Locks (or whatever it's called, I forget off the top of my head) in Small Damage. That's 30% taken up and 70% left to spread among all of your assigned moves for the "Small" damage category. For the sake of match pacing you probably want to spread that among all of your "Small" category moves. MAYBE one Medium damage move? That's up to you and something you can experiment with more as you better understand percentages. You'd then do the same for Medium and Large, adjusting accordingly. You don't need to limit yourself to "one other big move." Not in the least. If you do that your Edit is basically NEVER going to get to a point where they'll have done enough damage to be in Large, and they'll only have two moves to do in Large Damage if they ever get there. Does that make sense? Think of it this way: You assign something like 5% to Back Switch in Large Damage, 5% to your Finishing Move, 10% to Hammer Throw/Irish Whip, and 9% to another move under the Big category. So out of 100 times your edit wins a grapple, 5% of the time he'll go for a Back Switch, 5% your Finishing Move, 10% a Hammer Throw, 9% another Big move. The same applies for Small and Medium Damage. So you want to spread out your move percentages to ultimately get a match pacing you're happy with. A natural progression would be high percentages of small moves in Small, a mixture of Medium and Small in Medium with a focus more-so on Medium moves, and finally in Large a smattering of Small and Medium damage moves with a focus, evidently, on Big moves (without OVERdoing it, which is where the fun balancing act of logic comes into play). I'd say watch a match or two of edits you know you enjoy, download them, make a copy of them. and pick apart their logic. Or if someone like Dawn or another person whose edits you enjoy is streaming test/random sims ask if they wouldn't mind opening up their logic for an edit so you can take a look at it. Again: You don't have 100% to spread among all three categories. You have 100% to play with PER CATEGORY. You'll see as you adjust things the percentage at the bottom for each category adds up to a 100%. You literally can't continue on if it adds up to anything less.
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Post by faulknasty on Apr 5, 2019 20:34:56 GMT
So for the other 92% should I put that in smaller moves and one other big move? Here's the thing, my dude: You actually have 100% PER CATEGORY. So you have 100% to spread between small, medium, and large categories for your front grapples. For argument's sake let's say you have 20% dedicated to Irish Whips and 10% for Face Locks (or whatever it's called, I forget off the top of my head) in Small Damage. That's 30% taken up and 70% left to spread among all of your assigned moves for the "Small" damage category. For the sake of match pacing you probably want to spread that among all of your "Small" category moves. MAYBE one Medium damage move? That's up to you and something you can experiment with more as you better understand percentages. You'd then do the same for Medium and Large, adjusting accordingly. You don't need to limit yourself to "one other big move." Not in the least. If you do that your Edit is basically NEVER going to get to a point where they'll have done enough damage to be in Large, and they'll only have two moves to do in Large Damage if they ever get there. Does that make sense? Think of it this way: You assign something like 5% to Back Switch in Large Damage, 5% to your Finishing Move, 10% to Hammer Throw/Irish Whip, and 9% to another move under the Big category. So out of 100 times your edit wins a grapple, 5% of the time he'll go for a Back Switch, 5% your Finishing Move, 10% a Hammer Throw, 9% another Big move. The same applies for Small and Medium Damage. So you want to spread out your move percentages to ultimately get a match pacing you're happy with. A natural progression would be high percentages of small moves in Small, a mixture of Medium and Small in Medium with a focus more-so on Medium moves, and finally in Large a smattering of Small and Medium damage moves with a focus, evidently, on Big moves. I'd say watch a match or two of edits you know you enjoy and pick apart their logic. Or if someone like Dawn or another person whose edits you enjoy is streaming test/random sims ask if they wouldn't mind opening up their logic for an edit so you can take a look at it. Again: You don't have 100% to spread among all three categories. You have 100% to play with PER CATEGORY. You'll see as you adjust things the percentage at the bottom for each category adds up to a 100%. You literally can't continue on if it adds up to anything less. Ok thank you this helps a lot. And yes that last question I was asking just for the large damage category but yeah I have just a hard time figuring out to do with percentages (particularly in large after I put some in my finisher) when I had like 20% left to use and I felt like I didn't want any of my moves to have a higher chance of being done than they already were. I now realize that all that was way off and I still need to figure out how to balance it but I have a much better idea. I will also now be asking questions in my creation thread so that I don't clog this one up with my questions
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Post by OrochiGeese on Apr 6, 2019 5:46:26 GMT
Are there any spots left? I wasn't 100% sure from the previous posts. I would submit Kazuo Saji if there are but no worries, I can always submit him for a future show. I’d be more than happy to put forth Chad Fukushima & Gunner Wilcox for either a singles match for one of them OR a tag match as “The Big Gunz” if anyone is interested or in need of a matchup. However I’m easy, so if plans are already in motion to fill the remaining spots then that’s fine and I’ll sit this one out. I just wanted to put it out there for anyone who might be struggling to find an opponent(s). Why don't you 2 do a singles match? Sounds like a good solution to me. That definitely works for me. I'm happy to have my Kazuo Saji go against his Chad or Gunner. Would one of us be expected to cap it or is there a team in place for that? I don't mind capping but it may make more sense to have a neutral third party to make sure that I don't automatically put him over 😁 Saji: "...come on man, you're killing me 😭"
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Post by OrochiGeese on Apr 6, 2019 5:55:16 GMT
!!! ATTENTION !!!we have finally created the ring for Critical Club Presents: Critical Edge. We encourage you to use this ring for your self recorded matches, but it is not mandatory, because as the great founder of Social Justice Wrestling once said; "It is unamerican to censor art". Mat (credit to TwistC and Will) Apron (credit to Princess Pepperoni) Corner Mat (credit to Princess Pepperoni) REALLY love that new ring mat as well as the apron and corner posts!! Awesome work here everyone. Very striking design. The ads on the mat are a great touch 😎
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Post by TwistC on Apr 6, 2019 6:10:37 GMT
Why don't you 2 do a singles match? Sounds like a good solution to me. That definitely works for me. I'm happy to have my Kazuo Saji go against his Chad or Gunner. Would one of us be expected to cap it or is there a team in place for that? I don't mind capping but it may make more sense to have a neutral third party to make sure that I don't automatically put him over 😁 Saji: "...come on man, you're killing me 😭" If you cannot record, lankylefty will for the show. Recording your own match is completely optional
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