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Post by xemyrlebeau on Mar 24, 2019 19:50:39 GMT
I said I was going to do this literally thirty seconds ago, so here we go before I lose my will to live. The guide section is rather barren, and I think that there are a lot of tips and tricks that have come up since the last big guide was released, and a lot of new ways of looking at things that people either don't have a basis for or haven't been reliably exposed to. I don't have the clout necessary to create an over-arching guide as of yet, I don't think, but I do feel like I know enough to explain some of these things, and since Soak has been lost to the aether of wargaming, I still have the desire to keep a thread like this running. With that in mind, we're going to start off with the most important thing I think Soak hasn't gotten around to - gating. Gating, generally, is the idea of making sure an edit is going to attempt to finish the match in a given position, and then closely regulating the ways that edit is able to get into that position. Common places to gate are positions that aren't regularly achieved in a match, and thus can be regulated more efficiently - Face Down, Daze, Back Grapple, and Irish Whip. What ties all of these together is that you as the edit-maker can control how often your opponent gets to these positions in most cases. This means that you can set them aside as a "kill-zone" in large damage, and max out a finishing attempt that happens in one of these positions. The key to an efficient - or "full" - gate is that your edit should always be attempting to finish from that position, and also that you should be able to reliably regulate how often they get into that position. Back Gating: I'm the most directly familiar with back gating, as I have a couple of edits that I am quite fond of, Stefan Roth and Brendan Byrne, who use it rather effectively. With a back gate, your edit will attempt their back grapple finisher 100% of the times they are in back grapple. (This ignores the DLC Endless German, which can be used as a filler move in back gates, as it returns you to back grapple in order to attempt your gate again.) While at first glance this might seem like a recipe to have an edit that spams finishers, it's simple to regulate how quickly you get into a back grapple. Back switches and daze back grapple percentages are basically the only ways to get into back grapple without clipping issues, and therefore edits are able to be tightly "gated" around the back grapple state. As a real-life set of analogues, do you expect that Okada is going to grapple someone from behind late match, and not go inevitably into a Rainmaker attempt? What about the Miz and his Skull-Crushing Finale? Or insert any wrestler with a back grapple finisher. If the match is nearing its conclusion - which is what large damage is supposed to signify - that edit should be going for their finisher any time they get in position to do it. Face Down Gating: Not many moves in Fire Pro end with the opponent face-down. In addition to this, most random bumps (Irish whip bump, running into corner bump, etc), end with the opponent face-up. With this in mind, face-down gating is as simple as maxing out your chances to do a finishing move in face-down grapple, and closely relegating the moves your edit has that end up in face-down. A good example of this as an idea is Brick's edit Keith Greyson, who does a submission out of face-down grapple any time an edit is face-down. This, again, is only as "spammy" as you make it, because you have a reliable trigger in order to make the finishing move happen. Daze Gating: You know how Randy Orton does the RKO outta nowhere while his opponent staggers around? This is what the daze gate is for. Daze state is one of the more finicky states to gate, as your triggers, in order of importance, are dazing moves (Toe Kick B, Short Elbow B, etc). moves in LRG grapple that bump your opponent, and your opponent being gassed. A good way to reliably daze-gate is to have one move that is supposed to daze your opponent, and no bumping moves in large damage. Daze gates are also great to chain to other moves, as Byrne showcased above does. One of his most common ways to get into back grapple is a very high percentage daze chance to back grapple. Bad Amador (EDIT: An edit made by John Fire Pro himself, TwistC) does the Randy Orton daze gated cutter thing, but it's a reliable way to get basically any strike finisher to work. Whip Gating: Whip Gates are the most finicky of the "reliable" gates. Bad Amador does this, as well, as his every Irish whip attempt late-match should end up in a back grapple finisher attempt. The biggest issues with whip gating, as opposed to the other styles of gating, are that Irish whips are often reversed, and that whips only have a SML/LRG damage divide, instead of giving you options in mid-match. With this in mind, using a whip gate reliably requires your edit to never Irish whip in MED damage, as these divides don't line up with other damage divides in the game. If you allow Irish whip attempts in MED, you will have your edit start attempting your finisher, whether it's a Spanish Fly or a Nodawa-Otoshi or whatever you want, earlier than they should be, which will devalue your finisher later in the match. Even having zero Irish whip attempts in medium damage doesn't completely negate the chance that your edit will reverse an Irish whip and hit their finisher, but that is exceedingly rare to see happen. EDIT: People have reminded me that the SML/LRG divide in irish whips follows the normal irish whip damage progression. Because of this, medium damage irish whips are totally fine to use, and the biggest thing to remember with whip gating is that your finisher might come out of irish whip reversals and that you want to moderate your irish whip % in large damage With all of this in mind, we can look at the consequences of gating. First of all, this is going to make fight psychology much easier to convey, because your edit is going to go for a finish when they are in the position to do so, as opposed to prolonging the match. It also will save you priorities in the long run because your edit is going to take actions 100% of the time regardless of what's going on (the ECHO lariat strategy is a form of gating in itself, and saves you priority slots). However, and something I cannot stress enough - MAKING AN EDIT GATED IS GOING TO FUCK WITH THEIR MATCH PACING.
If your edit is reliably in large damage for a while and does moves outside of their finishers in the spots you're now gating, you run the risk of ending the match much earlier than anticipated because the edit will now finish in these positions 100% of the time. This is something that can be easily fixed by messing with parameters, so do not get discouraged. With that block of text out of the way, I'd like to open discussion to all of you here. Discussion of edit-making is encouraged, although we do have a tips and tricks thread somewhere else that holds a lot of useful information. For anyone who's making an edit and has been having trouble making it work, post it here, and I'm sure I or someone else will be happy to help you figure out what's going wrong. In addition to this, if you have any further questions about gating or how to make a gated edit, I've written all of this stream of consciousness over the past hour so I'm sure there's clarifications I can make or pictures I can post that will help confused people out. |
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Post by Wonderland on Mar 24, 2019 19:56:52 GMT
Good stuff. I got a tag team, Turnbow and Nash, who make extensive use of opponent down gating. It was initially as a way of making for unofficial sequences, before the limit was expanded from three. But it works well enough that I've left them in tact.
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Post by TwistC on Mar 24, 2019 19:59:01 GMT
good stuff xem.
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rsws
JIM MINY
Posts: 66
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Post by rsws on Mar 24, 2019 20:02:55 GMT
Really nice guide. I used some of these techniques already, though probably not to their fullest potential. This could be a useful guide for me. c:
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Post by Severla on Mar 24, 2019 20:07:35 GMT
Irish Whip in MED still uses the Logic of 'Irish Whip - SML' so it's safe to have Whip % in Front Grapple in MED still.
SML - LRG as the only two just secretly means SML/MED - LRG/CRT.
As how LRG -CRT for flying just means 'SML/MED/LRG - CRT'
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Post by Severla on Mar 24, 2019 20:21:23 GMT
Also, before it fades away in the General Chat.... Depends on their general size and style. Here's a pretty generic template of ground moves for non fighters, with logic: Top Guard: Small: Shotei - 50% - 0% Medium: Knuckle Arrow - 30% - 0% Large: Jackknife Pin - 20% - 100% Bottom Guard: -Bash Top Sprawl Small: Body Punch - 50% - 0% Medium: Face Punch - 50% - 0% Large: Spin to Back - 0% - 100% Bottom Sprawl -Drop Toe Hold Top Back Mount Small: Shotei - 60% - 0% Medium: Knuckle Arrow - 40% - 0% Large: Gedo Clutch - 0% - 100% Back Mount Bottom -Escape --- Now I have a basic rationale between the moves I pick here and the percents I set. The shotei is there for a bare knuckle fighter who doesn't know how to throw down some real ground and pound and also doesn't want to bust their own knuckles. It can also stand in for a grappler trying to pummel for position. The knuckle arrows are your usual pro wrestling style ground punches, think HHH and his "doosh doosh" punches or Stone Cold's punches from the Thesz Press. Then I picked the Jackknife Pin, which can work for a lighter weight or more technical type, although the lifting bomb can function for power/brawler types. From sprawl, I have the basic punches, but in late match, they spin to the back looking for a pin. Gedo Clutch isn't optimal for a back mount pin, but it's the only one. Then the Bash counter is wonderfully generic, the drop toe hold can be subbed for the waterwheel for larger guys, and the escape can be subbed for the back press in the same situation. One of my main goals here is that no match is going to end off a move that doesn't make sense in a pro wrestling context. No stoppages for a weak strike barrage, as the jackknife and the Gedo clutch are the only moves here that can take place in late match that can possibly net a win in a wrestling match. Hope that makes a bit of sense, I always set moves and logic for the ground positions, as I run a wide variety of styles and wrestlers, so I want to ensure that my pro wrestlers can at least function properly if they get taken down. |
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Post by xemyrlebeau on Mar 25, 2019 16:20:53 GMT
Let's break this gating thing down edit-by-edit now that I have had some time to stop typing, sleep, and boot up Fire Pro. First, we'll look at Twistc's edit, Bad Amador, who has a daze gate and a whip gate. If you boot up Amador, you'll notice that he has a variety of ways to make an edit stand up dazed. ![](https://i.imgur.com/rq2HXaX.png") Amador's first, and most spot-like way of making an edit get up dazed is his Legsweep Facebuster > Throat Cut > Pickup priority chain. After this sequence of moves, the edit is in a dazed state for long enough for Amador to reliably hit the cutter. You'll likely see this in any sim that Amador gets to large, from my experience. His other major way of getting his opponent to a dazed state is his Toe Kick B in front grapple, a move that only happens late-match. In addition to this, looking at his priorities, you see that multiple of his priorities are linked to running finishers (the Kotaro Crusher and the Slingblade) which frees the edit up to have another interesting sequence happen from Irish Whips.  As you can see, Amador is never going to use an irish whip in late-match, which makes him a prime target for a whip gate rare finisher.  Early in the match, Amador will always hit his Toe Kick B off of an irish whip, and this will always transfer to a running crossbody. This is an early match pinning spot, and it falls off midmatch because Twist doesn't want to win off of it (obviously). Late match, however, if Amador happens to reverse an Irish Whip, which is uncommon but not impossible, he will wait for his opponent and hit his Mexican Cutter finisher. If you haven't realized it to this point, Amador really likes to do cutters and similar moves.  This right here is Amador's daze logic. It's very simple to set up a daze gate like this. Define your killzone (Most often the second the edit's opponent hits large), Set those percentages to 100% for what you want the edit to finish on (normally a strike finisher, but also possibly a back grapple), and give a reliable way to get into daze. (Often you want a dazing move, like Short Elbow B or Toe Kick B, in order to reliably fish for daze gate opportunities, but a move > taunt > pickup works as well, especially if you're trying to portray your edit as arrogant.) Amador, here, uses Tow Kick B from front grapple, as well as the Legsweep Facebuster > Taunt > Pickup, which makes this cutter happen with reasonable frequency. This is good for the cutter, because it is going to result in a dual bump and no cover relatively often. There are, of course, other aspects of logic you can poke into, as in the frequency of the triggering move for a daze gate, or the frequency an edit irish whips and thus allows for their whip gate finisher to happen, but this is the bare minimum for both of these gates. Probably later today, we'll look at Brendan Byrne to expand a little bit further on daze gates, and start explaining the dozens of ways you can modulate your back gate finisher. |
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Post by xemyrlebeau on Mar 26, 2019 20:53:04 GMT
Alright, next on the list is Brendan Byrne, my own edit, and one I feel vaguely more confident talking about. Byrne does a lot of things in order to get into back grapple, and he finishes rather incessantly once he gets his opponent into large. This might be an issue on many edits, but it's countered largely by his massive ukemi percentages in the early/mid-match and his low-offense/high-defense strategy. This, along with Strikeback, allows him to take a massive beating, get a Ukemi boost and a Strikeback boost, then come back with a vengeance in the later match. His most often used finishing move is a back-gated tiger suplex, shown here.  As you can see, this back gate is rather simple - if Byrne gets into a back grappls position late match, he's going for his bridging Tiger Suplex. Back Gates can be more complex than this, using multiple moves or even having an alternate sequence entirely, but this is a simple back gate to demonstrate what's going on here. Byrne, however, has a large amount of options for how he's going to get into back grapple, and he doesn't use the most obvious one. If you peeked into his front grapple logic, you wouldn't see a front grapple back switch. That front grapple back switch is, by far, the most likely way for an edit to get into back grapple, and I wholeheartedly endorse it if you want a back gated finisher, but there are a variety of more interesting ways to get into back grapple, and ways that can make an edit's personality shine through much better.  Let's start here. We talked about daze gates earlier with Amador - how you can make an edit do something by forcing them into doing a daze action 100% of the time. This, on the other hand, is a soft daze gate. Byrne, as the match goes on, is more and more likely to go into a back grapple tiger suplex attempt, but he's never 100% likely. The strikes he's left with near the end of the match, however, are strikes that leave the opponent face-down. This leads to an interesting sequence occasionally, and that non-priority sequence is why this gate is not fully closed.  Byrne does a lot of face-down pickup in the later stages of the match, and while normally I would not recommend this, it leads to an interesting degree of relentlessness and striking for Byrne. Since occasionally he will choose to strike his opponent instead of going straight into back grapple, and those strikes will leave his opponent face-down in most cases, Byrne will then pick them back up and have another chance to go for the back grapple. This is completely guaranteed in the final stages of the match, but is very likely beforehand. With the moves in Byrne's front grapple that cause dazing already (The Tanahashi Slap Rush and the Toe Kick B), Byrne can have a somewhat malleable sequence of maneuvers that is guaranteed end in a tiger suplex pin, if not reversed. This is one of the strengths of gating, and especially of having multiple positions gated. If you build your logic so that the only way to end a sequence is a finisher, it always will feel as though your edit is building to that finishing maneuver, and it will eliminate the feeling of your edit just doing moves in the later stages of the match to stall for time. This daze-logic chain is not the only way for Byrne to enter back grapple, however, although it is often his most likely option.  Byrne's other major way to get into back grapple comes from his low percentage irish-whip chance late in the match. If Byrne hits an irish whip late, both of his maneuvers will possibly lead to finish attempts. The back switch, as we've seen, will lead to a back grapple Tiger Suplex, but the headscissors whip is prioritied to a rounding moonsault (which misses about as often as it hits). All of this put together gives Byrne a variety of unique ways to get to a finishing attempt, and a few ways to get to a finish attempt in a sequence that's entirely handled by the game's AI, rather than any priorities. These "unofficial sequences", as Wonderland put it, can actually lead to sequences of moves that wouldn't happen via priorities. Again, this is partially a gating guide/spot construction guide, but also feel free to submit edits or ask questions about how any of this should work. These posts take time to write, so if you have any questions bring them up and I'll try to answer them without you having to wait for me to get around to it. |
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Post by OrochiGeese on Mar 27, 2019 6:30:57 GMT
New favorite thread 💡 😎 Thanks for the ECHO shout-out! 😊 I wish I would have come up with the "Gating" terminology that you and Soak use rather than initially calling them "unofficial sequences" which made all my FPR ideas sound like bootlegs that "fell off" a Spike truck 😀 That's the #1 challenge with these strategies. I will say though, I kind of like that challenge. Having to not just implement your strategy but ALSO minimize the damage it does to your edit's pacing in other areas can be a fun challenge. And FPW gives us more tools to "hide" that troubled pacing by allowing us to compensate in other ways. I said this in another post last week in regard to the challenge of hey buddy you wanna buy these totally bootlet unofficial sequences gating without the direct aid of priorities: If you can manage or even hide 2) and 3), you can make gating work really well for you. And if you can use official sequences, then you can really do some incredible things in this game. I regret that I haven't had the time (and therefore the energy or curiosity) to do the same deep dive into FPW possibilities as I did during the final days of FPR. I've never had more fun with Fire Pro than when I was testing out the limits of FPR. It takes longer to see what the limits of FPW are and so we get a lot more possibilities, especially when you take into account all of the downstate taunting and edits who run on command (via priority) rather than just react to the state of their opponents. FPW has given us a potential I never thought we'd see in FPW and I've barely scratched the surface. |
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Post by Ramon on Mar 27, 2019 9:14:04 GMT
I love this! More logic knowledge to the people! :D
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Post by xemyrlebeau on Mar 28, 2019 6:32:17 GMT
...especially when you take into account all of the downstate taunting and edits who run on command (via priority) rather than just react to the state of their opponents. And with this little quote in mind, we're going to take a look at my newest edit, and maybe my most complete package in regards to gating and making a reliable finishing spot. This is "The Brainbuster Kid" Stephen Keene.  As you can see, he has a few of those running priorities Geese was talking about, and they come together, along with the forced sequencing that gating provides, to give Keene a few spots that not only will definitely lead into a finish but ALSO allow for some unpredictability in how he behaves, as well as giving opponents the ability to counter him.  Keene, as you can see, is whip-gated to the Front Suplex, and his Running (BIG) move is a Back Switch. This Back Switch is never going to come up in normal gameplay except when it's priority chained to, either from the Front Suplex > Taunt > Running (BIG) priority, or the same priorities on the strike exchange dropkick, the front grapple Belly to Belly, or the Short Elbow B. So, if Keene knocks you down off of these moves, he's going to taunt you until you stand back up, and then go for a running back switch. This little priority chain works as a wake-up taunt on running finishers like the spear, or whatever else you have, but it's not the main event here.  Keene goes into a back switch, so provided his running switch isn't countered, he's going to end up in this logic state. From here, he can either hit his Sheer-Drop Reverse DDT (which is prettier than the Reverse Brainbuster, shh) or hit an Irish Whip. The Irish Whip, however, is where things get interesting, and a little bit theoretical, because I'm incapable of recording GIFs to explain what I'm talking about. Keene has 100% Showmanship, which means that any chance he has to Irish whip an opponent to a corner, he will take it (In reality, this means that if Keene is along the X that connects the turnbuckles to each other, he will 100% of the time direct his Irish whip to the corner instead of the ropes). If he is not able to corner whip, he will repeat the process. If not interrupted, this loop will eventually end with either a finisher attempt or an Irish whip to the corner.  Now, this is technically new, but if you've been following me through these other gates, this one is going to immediately make sense to you. If I've gone through all this trouble to have Keene reliably hit his Irish whip to the corner, and he's going for a grapple after a huge belly to belly suplex and back switch, I want it to be a finisher attempt. Keene also has another trick or two up his sleeve in order to make sure this sequence happens reliably.  We could talk about other things in front grapple, like the Belly to Belly as an alternate sequence-starter or the Back Switch, but those moves are relatively self-explanatory. Instead, this is where another gate - and a reliable way to bait corner finishers - comes into play. Keene has a rather low Irish whip percentage late, as it's somewhat anticlimactic to have him randomly whip to corner and try for a finisher (I'm debating removing late whips in front grapple entirely), but the interesting move here is the headlock drag. With high discretion, the headlock drag sends to center, and also eliminates the possibility of a random tree of woe grapple interrupting my finishing sequence - two birds with one stone! And for an added benefit, the facelock drag ends with the opponent face-down, which means it's one of the best candidates for face-down gating off of -  and Keene is 100% guaranteed to pick his opponent up after that facelock drag. Since picking up your opponent will leave them in a dazed state, this will immediately lead back to back grapple, and either the brainbuster attempt or an Irish whip to corner for the corner brainbuster attempt. With this set of logic, Keene is very strictly modulated to keep to one course of action once he starts it, while still giving his opponent multiple chances to reverse. In addition to this, because I know that Keene is definitely going for a finisher attempt two or three steps before he actually gets around to it, it makes the late sections of matches exceptionally exciting, especially when the opposing edit counters his back switch attempt, or reverses the back grapple. This, in my opinion, is the true power of gating, beyond just adding "unofficial priorities" or even making an edit pursue a course of action. With this sort of logic set-up or countless variations on it, you can have an edit that reliably has a finishing SEQUENCE, instead of a series of finishing moves, and you can do it without sacrificing your priority slots, or losing your mid-match efficacy. Unrelated, but important tip for back gating: If you're going to back gate, it's a good idea to have your back grapple reversals lead to another attempt at back grapple. This can be simple (Back Switch reversal), or more complicated (Back Elbow to dazed back grapple, Back Low Blow to face-down pickup). Mixing these in will allow your edit to supplement an opponent's back gate, while giving you interesting reversal options to get into back grapple. Two edits set up in this way can even engage in a sort of chain wrestling, as they both jockey for their back grapple. |
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Post by OrochiGeese on Mar 29, 2019 6:02:56 GMT
Keene is very strictly modulated to keep to one course of action once he starts it, while still giving his opponent multiple chances to reverse. In addition to this, because I know that Keene is definitely going for a finisher attempt two or three steps before he actually gets around to it, it makes the late sections of matches exceptionally exciting, especially when the opposing edit counters his back switch attempt, or reverses the back grapple. This, in my opinion, is the true power of gating, beyond just adding "unofficial priorities" or even making an edit pursue a course of action. With this sort of logic set-up or countless variations on it, you can have an edit that reliably has a finishing SEQUENCE, instead of a series of finishing moves, and you can do it without sacrificing your priority slots, or losing your mid-match efficacy. This is the true evolution of the concept of "unofficial priorities" and I love the way that you expressed it. "Gating" + patient/careful planning + FPW's extra priority slots & options leads to these amazing possibilities. Really enjoying your posts and this thread 😎 Let me ask a question that has been on my mind for the past few months. Have you been able to rig up any strategies for tag team gating in order to compensate for the lack of "tag team" priorities? Obviously we can priority after tag team moves (despite the legal man not always being the one who gets to do that) but I would love the ability to have Wrestler A follow a move by Wrestler B to end a match. For example: Wrestler A holds Opponent from behind, Wrestler B comes into the ring and hits their []+X move (which could be a special/finisher) that would leave opponent face down, Wrestler A then does a "face down" finisher submission (or strike) to end the match. I'd love to make this happen but ran into obstacles. I've tried to use the "face down" strategy but it isn't really working. I try to base it off the "hold wrestler from behind" set-up but to even get into that setup reliably requires the type of ring positioning that "R Trigger" headlock would be ideal for. However, since that headlock leads to the "face down" position (the same position I intend to follow-up with during the tag sequence I described above), I'm stuck. And FPW doesn't allow us to use "R-Trigger" as the starting move of a priority. So "face down" strategy gets me nowhere since it would happen too early before the opponent comes in. The only other idea I've had is just to use the "switch to back" front grapple move (or running/run counter move) but that means I'm soooo reliant on the positioning and timing being just right to set up the tag partner coming in on the apron. It COULD work but it's just not a high enough likelihood so its not worth it to me to set up two edits to do this for the slim chance it would happen. Any ideas? I'd love it if Spike allowed us to have two wrestlers in a faction together priority off each other or, more simply, if we could just priority R-Trigger into Pick up Opponent. Maybe mods can do that now though. |
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Post by TwistC on Mar 29, 2019 12:12:12 GMT
Keene is very strictly modulated to keep to one course of action once he starts it, while still giving his opponent multiple chances to reverse. In addition to this, because I know that Keene is definitely going for a finisher attempt two or three steps before he actually gets around to it, it makes the late sections of matches exceptionally exciting, especially when the opposing edit counters his back switch attempt, or reverses the back grapple. This, in my opinion, is the true power of gating, beyond just adding "unofficial priorities" or even making an edit pursue a course of action. With this sort of logic set-up or countless variations on it, you can have an edit that reliably has a finishing SEQUENCE, instead of a series of finishing moves, and you can do it without sacrificing your priority slots, or losing your mid-match efficacy. This is the true evolution of the concept of "unofficial priorities" and I love the way that you expressed it. "Gating" + patient/careful planning + FPW's extra priority slots & options leads to these amazing possibilities. Really enjoying your posts and this thread 😎 Let me ask a question that has been on my mind for the past few months. Have you been able to rig up any strategies for tag team gating in order to compensate for the lack of "tag team" priorities? Obviously we can priority after tag team moves (despite the legal man not always being the one who gets to do that) but I would love the ability to have Wrestler A follow a move by Wrestler B to end a match. For example: Wrestler A holds Opponent from behind, Wrestler B comes into the ring and hits their []+X move (which could be a special/finisher) that would leave opponent face down, Wrestler A then does a "face down" finisher submission (or strike) to end the match. I'd love to make this happen but ran into obstacles. Well, this reletively new trick if you make one of the pin slots "nonuse" and set it to 100%, they will do nothing but wait. So have that edit do a move that facedowns, and have his nonuse at 100%. Then have the other edit facedown gated for the finish. It'd be like this: EDIT B: move that does facedown -> nonuse 100% (waiting) EDIT A: facedown gate kicks in and finish happens |
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Post by xemyrlebeau on Mar 29, 2019 12:21:32 GMT
To add on to what Teist was saying:
So probably what I'd recommend, in order to have it work reliably without becoming overbearing is to have one edit reliably "stand back" when their opponent is face-down in large damage, which isn't going to come up terribly often except for whatever set-up move you want. Then, if there's a double team move that ends face-down, you can use that as a trigger, or basically any other move that ends face-down, OR in theory a move that ends face-up prioed into rolling the opponent over, although that would look aesthetically weird. The sacrifice there is that one edit will have a move that they just wait for the opponent to stand up from, that will only be followed up if the other edit is in the ring and ready to hit a finisher. I can probably mock up a team tonight that does what you're asking, or I'm sure Twiste can if he has more time.
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Mar 29, 2019 19:31:47 GMT
This is an absolutely fantastic guide. One of the harder things to learn when you start to make edits is how to more predictably get your guys into their finisher positions. This could not be a better guide for that, I wish it was around when I first started haha. I tend to use more soft gates, but will definitely be referencing this in the future as well as re-looking at a couple guys that could use some of these methods.
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