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Post by pfadrian on Nov 15, 2018 15:47:21 GMT
Maybe this should become a focus in edit guides, but we should start sharing any personal learnings in tweaking wrestler edits for better 2.0 matches.
There’s a noticeable change in match pacing from 1.02 to 2.0. With wrestlers now moving more quickly into medium, and large damage phases, this seems to negatively affect match ratings.
Has anyone found particular tweaks successful? Move logic? Parameters?
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Post by Severla on Nov 15, 2018 16:59:44 GMT
*sims match with Chris Severla vs Mike White, gets a 100%, 15m long match*
Im still not sure where the whole notion of '2.0 changed pacing' is coming from.
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Nov 15, 2018 17:07:59 GMT
Im with Sev. At first it felt like matches were possibly faster paced, but the more I’ve simmed, the more I havent noticed a difference. With zero tweaks my matches still sit between 15-20 min with ratings similar to what I got in 1.02...
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Post by pfadrian on Nov 15, 2018 17:08:04 GMT
*sims match with Chris Severla vs Mike White, gets a 100%, 15m long match* Im still not sure where the whole notion of '2.0 changed pacing' is coming from. Matches on average have been shown between 6-11 minutes shorter. Though maybe I’m imagining the lower ratings. Part of this might have been not having the rest hold mod for 2.0 (until last night!) Thaf mod made a big difference to my edits because it allowed me to have holds late in match without them causing a tap out. |
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Post by Severla on Nov 15, 2018 17:14:47 GMT
Matches on average have been shown between 6-11 minutes shorter. I have seen ZERO sims go that notably shorter. My edits' tend to range in a 12 to 20 minute window (being RNG stomp vs RNG not firing off finishers). They'd literally be going sub-10 with that notable of a time reduction. If you're laying on Rest Holds mod, then you're probably just seeing earlier tap-outs because they're using submissions in Crit like they shouldnt be. Edit: And to note my use of Edits in my first post, one of those isnt even mine and they still did the correct duration/match rating. |
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Post by Wonderland on Nov 15, 2018 18:06:19 GMT
Matches on average have been shown between 6-11 minutes shorter. Who has shown it, and how? Can we see? |
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Post by pfadrian on Nov 15, 2018 21:56:45 GMT
Matches on average have been shown between 6-11 minutes shorter. Who has shown it, and how? Can we see? After hearing responses from others, I’m thinking this is a non-issue. Maybe there isn’t a big difference, or any, but some people FEEL it being different. I think, now the mods are back, I’m just going to see how things improve with the rest holds option. I think that was the only difference with my edits, ending matches on weak holds that the mod prevented from being finishers. |
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Post by Love Wilcox on Nov 15, 2018 22:11:17 GMT
Edits are definitely getting into Large Damage / Near Death MUCH quicker now. I only downloaded the update a few days ago, I was completely unaware of this issue before hand but noticed it straight away after simming some guys that I’m intimately familiar with.
It isn’t crazy bad or totally ruining matches but before I wouldn’t see match ending moves until 12-15+ minutes into a match and now I’m typically seeing them around the 10 minute mark or earlier in some cases.
The matches themselves are still good and I still get 20-30 minute epics with the right Edits but it does hurt the pacing a little, especially when it comes to working a body part as they tend not to work it over quite so much before trying to end the match.
As far as potential solutions I think the only thing that can be done is to lower offensive stats and raise defensive ones and see how things go. I’m hesitant to do this just yet as I don’t want to fuck my guys up when I’ve worked so hard to get them where they are xD
EDIT: obviously I don’t have proof but Chad Fukushima is my baby, I’ve simmed literally thousands of matches with him in World alone and they are certainly different now... not necessarily better or worse, just different.
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Post by Spunk on Nov 15, 2018 22:21:02 GMT
I've got like dozens (hundreds?!) of hours of footage of SCFL Pro guys in the old version. Been experimenting with 2.0 of late and... The matches definitely feel a bit shorter. www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkiZ6O0EYW0Yes, mods are on there just for certain things, but even with them off the results were kind of similar. Most of these folks go a lot longer in deathmatches. |
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Post by Dawnbr3ak3r on Nov 17, 2018 1:38:47 GMT
I ran about 30 matches last night on stream (the majority being part of a tournament) and I didn't notice anything different. My matches average anywhere between 15 and 25 minutes. They'll be shorter or longer depending on who's in the matches. I use a ref with specific settings for Singles Matches, and another ref with specific settings for Tag Team Matches. The only time matches went really short is almost certainly RNG and nothing else. I've also been tweaking older edits to be up to quality with newer edits, and even those matches have been hovering around the 15 to 25 minute mark. My edits are designed a specific way and lean heavily on Late Match priority sequences. Almost all of my edits follow the same Logic outline - Steadily proceeding to Large Damage over time. Most matchups see Large Damage around the 8 to 10 minute mark, unless an edit is having a hard time getting to that breakpoint. Most of my edits have similar parameter builds too - Usually one or two Offensive parameters will be 6, with most ranging from 2 to 4, while Defensive Parameters a bit higher: Most will come with 7 to 8 Defense in some categories, while some will be weaker than others. My lower tier edits sit around 150 to 170, with no Special Skills, and will vary in points depending on their Movement Speed (30 points for Fast Movement Speed is a lot). Many of my luchadoras have 200 points, but some of them don't necessarily have high tier parameters; This is partially because the Tier 2 and 3 skills can take up a good chunk of points. I should also mention that I try my best to have all of my edits fit within the rule set of the FPCPP/FPWA, as it's what I'm used to and what is usually the standard for this community. Also, I don't use any mods that regulate or alter match pacing. I don't have the Restholds mod nor the Match Pacing mods enabled. Every result I've gotten is due to the ref settings I use and the way my edits are designed. Here are some of the results from the aforementioned tournament: Here are some of the Parameter panels for my edits: As a preface, the majority of my edits have very high Aerial and Impact Defense because those are the parameters most commonly attached to the Diving Attacks. Also, the majority of my roster is lucha-based. This plays a part in the duration of my matches much of the time. My edits also have 1 MMA Offense and 1 Entertainment Offense to counter how nuke-y these two skill sets can be. Tali Triton: I consider Tali Triton to be the "ace" of my promotion. She has strong Offense, and good Defense. However, she's not impossible to beat. She has the Superstar skill and takes advantage of it to defeat her opponents. She is considered a top-tier talent. Skully: Skully is designed to be a tank. She is a (former) Marine thought to be either KIA or MIA. She has an extremely high pain threshold/tolerance. She's especially tanky against other edits with Hardcore/Rough leanings. She is considered high/middle-tier. Riri Kanazuki: Riri Kanazuki is designed to be an anti-Rough/anti-Entertainment highflyer who's moveset changes at a certain point in the match. She's a J-Pop Idol with a troubled past and gets lost in own thoughs, making her prone to extremely violent episodes. Much of her Late Match damage comes from the Scythe Attack. She has the Superstar ability to take advantage of the damage boost from Taunting to supplement her otherwise lower end parameter spread. Peregrine Gonzalez: Peregrine Gonzalez is currently the weakest member of my roster. She's designed to be an absolute rookie. Her Parameter spread is considerably lower than the rest of the roster. Her Offense isn't strong, and neither is her Defense. However, she has increased Aerial and Impact Defense to give the illusion of her opponent putting her over. She has no Special Skill, and much of her Overall is spent on Fast Movement/Climbing Speed(s). PISTON Kawasaki: PISTON Kawasaki is on the lower end of the spectrum and is a member of the FLIP Factory roster. The FLIP Factory roster is designed to be weaker than the main roster, but are still more than capable of putting on good matches with the higher tier. Her parameter spread is pretty even, allowing her to take advantage of most of her moveset. She doesn't have a Special Skill, along with the rest of the FLIP Factory roster. MAXIMA: MAXIMA is considered high-tier. She has a very similar, if not stronger build than Tali Triton. These two have put on highly competitive matches against each other, often receiving 100% ratings in the Mexico Arena. She's designed to give most of the roster trouble, but can still be defeated by the lower tier if she messes around too much. She's extremely flashy and self-centered. This is showcased throughout her moveset. Here is my typical Ref setting:  I'm also aware that Ukemi and other things need to be taken into account. Many of my edits, mostly the Babyfaces, use a 10/20/40 Ukemi spread. Very specific edits like Jessica Shields and Holly Koghan use an 0/80/40 Ukemi spread. My Heels are more susceptible to losing, but come with a lot of low blows and other cheap moves to counter this. |
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Post by Pandakid on Nov 17, 2018 4:18:37 GMT
I've not noticed anything either, still been hitting my 15 minute sweet spot
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Post by sofia on Nov 17, 2018 16:43:44 GMT
I haven't had to change my edits much to get 15-20 minute results using the fast/optimal ref as necessary. If anything, looking at the new defaults, and faffing about with some other creators' edits on-stream, made me go, "huh, maybe I should nerf my OC edits a tad."
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Post by DM_PSX on Nov 17, 2018 16:45:42 GMT
*sims match with Chris Severla vs Mike White, gets a 100%, 15m long match* Im still not sure where the whole notion of '2.0 changed pacing' is coming from. It happens sometimes. It's a bug somewhere. My guys who normally have long matches will just get in there directly into medium or large logic in the first 2 minutes of the match. It's been happening since the last update. Like nay bug, there is a specific set of circumstances that cause it to occur. If you aren't triggering those circumstances, it won't occur on your end. Seems like possibly the value for the wrestler's vitals are being overwritten by accident, which is the most common form of bug. Usually, someone copy and pastes some code and forgets to change where a value is being written. There have been lots of bugs and issues in the last few updates. Running logic is fucked. Corner logic is fucked. The overzealous dragging. And a few other things I can't remember off the top of my head just this second. My referees have also never used the right voices since launch. They use a random assortment of different voices, or nothing plays. |
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Post by Severla on Nov 17, 2018 22:36:44 GMT
How are running and corner logics fucked?
"Overzealous dragging" - they literally changed it a year ago to check before basically every ground move. Carl even confirmed that change.
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Post by otaku2255 on Nov 18, 2018 11:13:10 GMT
I know that I've had to adjust %s on diving moves. Where 20% meant they would go for the move one or two times a match, now they sometimes spam it if the opponent stays down. Perhaps that's what he means.
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